Couple Character Questions.

[Maelakin]

Hello,

I recently picked up Icewind Dale II and was getting ready to start my first game. However, I wanted to ask a couple questions before getting started to help prevent making mistakes in the character and party creation steps. I know that some of these questions were probably answered in previous posts, but I am wary about searching through the forums to find answers and accidentally running into spoilers. As such, I would appreciate if spoilers would be left out of everyone’s response.

My first question pertains to party composition. I am planning on taking my characters through the game on insane followed by a game on HoF. I am not planning to min/max any of my characters. In fact, I plan on running a group of all humans with 10 being the minimum ability score. Here is my group composition:

Fighter (X)/Rogue (2) – 18/12/16/10/10/10

I plan on using this character as my frontline meat shield. The plan is to wear heavy armors that grant max protection. This will be a sword and shield style character. The two levels in the Rogue class are for the evasion ability.

Fighter (X)/Rogue (2)/Ranger (1) – 16/16/14/10/10/10

I plan on using this character as my main damage dealer, duel wielding various swords and concentrating on evasion techniques over heavy armor. Once again the Rogue levels are for the evasion skill.

Cleric (X) – 12/12/14/10/18/10

I have heard that you really want your casters to be pure. As such, I have not added any mixture of classes to this character. An option I have looked at is adding four levels of Fighter for combat purposes.

Bard (X)/Rogue (5) – 12/16/12/10/10/16

This guy would be my utility character. I really like the bard songs and figure the levels of Rogue should be sufficient to cover my Rogue needs. I’m only looking to increase Open Locks and Disarm Device skills. In combat, he would be a ranged attacker.

Sorcerer (X) – 10/16/12/10/10/18

As with the Cleric, this character was going to remain a pure class caster in order to maximize spell gain.

So now come the real questions.

Barring the Paladin and Barbarian classes, will my melee characters be sufficient for what they need to accomplish? Also, is the duel classing option viable?

Should the cleric remain a pure caster or should some melee levels be added to increase the characters base functionality at the cost of a few casting levels?

Will my utility character be able to accomplish the role I set for him at the duel classed levels I stated, or do I need to add additional Rogue levels.

And finally, does the Sorcerer need any support classes added or should this character also remain pure? In addition, what types of spells should the Sorcerer take in the game? I’ve played with Sorcerers through BGII both solo and in a party; so, I have a good working knowledge of how the spells work.

Thanks for your time!!

[Tancred]

The cleric should be able to handle himself in combat without fighter levels. Any deficiencies he may have in the melee department can be rectified with a simple casting of Bless, Draw Upon Holy Might etc.

The sorceror should avoid dual-classing generally - you need to level up fast as a sorceror to get the spells you need.

My own sorceror tended to stick to evocation spells - he had a cleric and a druid as company to handle the defensive stuff. That allowed him to pick the right feats to really excel in his role as a human nuke.

Your bard/rogue should be fine - I got by with a simple rogue 1/bard x. The real penalty you're laying on yourself is only giving him an Int of 10. This will REALLY cut into his theiving efficiency. I'd be tempted to suggest you drop his strength, if he's going to specialise in ranged combat, and pump it into INT.

The only question I'd raise about your dual-classed fighter is about his CON. When are you planning to dual-class to thief? If you do it early, you miss out on useful HP. If you do it late, it'll be a while until you get the abilities you want. Thing is, if you're planning to wear the heaviest armours you can, chances are those points you've put into DEX will become redundant later on... the same goes for the Cleric. Just a thought.

I have two questions for you, though; why do you have only 5 characters, and why this imposed restriction upon having all stats at 10 or above? I can understand not wanting INT of 3 and CHA of 1, that's evil. But lowering stats can be a roleplaying-based decision too - I dropped certain stats on my characters from 10 to 8. A weedy sorceror, an unwise thief, a smelly druid, a slightly thick fighter. It gave them a bit of character.

[Magness]

Maelakin , I don't really think that rogue evasion is worth spending 2 levels on for your 2 tanks, particularly on the character with the 18/12/16/10/10/10 stats. Evasion is a DEX based ability and this character will have a rather low Reflex save.

On the Fighter X/Rogue 2/Ranger 1, if you intend to take the Ranger 1 to get the free dual wielding, you should know that that ability only works when wearing light or no armor. It's a good ability for a high DEX ranger-archer or a rogue to have, but for a front line tank, it's really not worth it. Front line tanks just don't survive without wearing heavy armor.


What's up with your cleric? Sure, an 18 WIS is great for the spellcasting, but how do you foresee playing this cleric in battle? What I see with these stats is a strictly spellcasting cleric that avoids melee. I'd strongly suggest dumping the cleric's DEX down to 10, drop the INT and CHA by 2 each, and split the 8 extra stat points between STR and CON. A higher CON will be good for a better Concentration (a critical cleric skill) roll. And a higher STR will be good for a better BAB in melee.

The bard/rogue looks OK, stat wise. I'm not a big fan of bards, but those are good bard stats.

I'll admit that in a sorceror, I prefer taking an INT of 14 or 16 so that I can get as many skill points as possible to cover the various important arcane skills (Alchemy, Knowledge Arcana, Spellcraft, Concentration, for example).


Regarding lowering stats, don't be quite so rigid about it. Like tancred says, a little tweaking gives the characters some well, character. There's nothing wrong with going down to 8 on INT, WIS, or CHA. Heck, most of my rogues and rangers and fighters end up with CHA's of 8. And, yes, it does get a few more stat points.


I would look at your first tank as the "main damage dealer", not the 2nd one. The "Fighter (X)/Rogue (2)/Ranger (1) ? 16/16/14/10/10/10" character looks much more like what I call a "light fighter". A character that fights with both bow and sword (or whatever) and wears lighter armor and relies on stealth. I'd suggest going with a pure or near pure class ranger so that you can take advantage of the the ranger's stealthy skills.

My favorite ranger build had the following stats: (wild elf) STR 12, DEX 20, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 6. This character was a very terse and surly wild elven ranger-archer. He prefered fighting with his longbow, but would whip out his 2 short swords at need and wieldi the with great skill (due to weapon finesse). He was a VERY fun character to play in tandem with a good, stealthy rogue, because I would have the pair act as a search and detroy team of stealthy assassins. And having a good archer or 2 in a party is never a bad thing either.

[Maelakin]

Thanks for the responses.

To answer the question about stats, granted lowering a stat or two down to 8 won't have a significant factor on the game, but it all comes down to my personal preference. When playing races like Half-Orcs and the like I have no problem lowering say Cha to 6-8, but I just don't see my human party like that. A single bonus here or there doesn't mean much to me in the long run. If some parts of the game are a bit harder than that it is ok.

Quick note on the dex being 12 for the cleric and front fighter. I had read that most armors allow at least a +1 bonus from dex. In addition, it allows me to add 1 dex sometime later if I choose to get the dodge feat.

I'm playing a party of 5 for one simple reason, I always do. Have in BG, BGII, and IWD/(HoW). I've just grown comfortable with a party that size.

Anyways, based upon some suggestions here these would be the modified characters:

Fighter (X)/Cleric (3) - 18/10/16/10/12/10
I decided to duel to get a few cleric spell levels for self buffs (I know Paladins get spells, but I personally hate them). The rogue idea really wasn't ideal as was pointed out.

Ranger (X)/Fighter (4) - 12/18/16/10/10/10
Duel weilding short swords w/ ranged long bow attacks.

Cleric (X) - 14/10/14/10/18/10
Pure Cleric w/ some melee skills.

Bard (X)/Rogue (3) - 10/18/10/12/10/16
Took the suggestion of adding a few INT points for skills.

Sorcerer (X) - 10/18/10/10/10/18
I only plan on using 2 skills with this character, Concentration and Spell Craft. Because of this I don't see a need to put any points into INT.

Thanks again for the suggestions guys.