Bows bigger than maces/swords

Ultra Marine · 01-16-2006, 02:07 AM

This is kind of strange. Anybody with 1* in bows hits more often than a fighter with 2* in mace/sword. I actually tuned my IWD to HoF and tested this out on the beetles. Anybody knows why?

And, is there a penalty if my bows engage point blank?

(Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not the brave warrior who hits the bad guy in the face. Go hide behind some summons and shoot em up. Don’t complain. Some of you might do this too.)

Aerich · 01-16-2006, 08:47 AM

Yes, I know why.

Your generic composite longbow gives a +1 to hit. Assuming that a character has 17-18 Dex, it gains a +2 to hit with ranged weapons, for +3 in total even with a beginning character. 19 Dex gives an additional +1, for +3 in total just from Dex.

A fighter with ** in a melee weapon gets +1 to hit from specialization, and +1 (17+), +2 (18/51 - 18/99) or +3 (18/00) to hit from exceptional strength.

So, if a fighter has Str between 17 and 18/51, it gains +2 to hit with a weapon it is specialized in - +1 from specialization and +1 from Str. A character with 17 or better Dex using a composite longbow gets +3 to hit in total (or +4 with 19 Dex). [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm not entirely sure if there is a penalty for using bows at pointblank range. There is in 2nd ed p&p, but I don't know offhand if the designers incorporated the penalty into IWD. I generally work under the assumption that there is such a penalty.

ister · 01-16-2006, 09:17 AM

And the bow user gets 2 attacks per round while the sword/mace user only gets 1.5. I suspect that isn't what you meant by 'hits more often', but it certainly affects how much damage is done!

Ultra Marine · 01-22-2006, 12:17 AM

In DE, my paladin has AC -11. He can go hand to hand with skeletons with minimal hits. But when faced with skeletons with bows, he gets hit often.

Anyone knows why?

Klorox · 01-22-2006, 10:47 AM

If he's using a small shield, I don't think it protects against missile attacks. Different armors have different bonuses/penalties against missile attacks as well, but I don't know how your paladin got to that -11 AC (I need the armor and shield he's using). Also, I think those skeletal archers have a really great THAC0, so they're bound to hit more often, especially when considering that they attack twice as often as regular monsters.

Klorox · 01-22-2006, 10:48 AM

If he's using a small shield, I don't think it protects against missile attacks. Different armors have different bonuses/penalties against missile attacks as well, but I don't know how your paladin got to that -11 AC (I need the armor and shield he's using). Also, I think those skeletal archers have a really great THAC0, so they're bound to hit more often, especially when considering that they attack twice as often as regular monsters.

Dave G · 02-18-2006, 08:30 PM

I believe there is not penalty for shooting bows point-blank. If you change the feedback to display attack rolls, you won't notice any penalties.

Aerich · 02-19-2006, 02:29 AM

Perhaps there isn't a penalty, but I believe attacking with a melee weapon against someone using a bow results in a bonus for the attacker. Enemy archers switch to melee weapons when you attack them in melee, and there would be no reason for them to do that if the attack rolls on both sides stayed the same.

Kyrvias · 02-19-2006, 02:39 PM

Yep. When using a ranged weapon in melee combat, the enemy/melee attacker gets a +4 To Hit, I believe.

wanderon · 02-20-2006, 05:12 PM

Not sure how it was implemented in IWD but in BG1 the penalty for using the ranged weapons in melee range was -8 to hit...this did show up on the rolls when you display them. Thats why you would always see enemy archers or characters that had the "ranged" script frantically backing up to get away from enemies trying to close to melee distance and or switching to melee weapons.

01-16-2006, 08:47 AM	#2
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 43 Posts: 2,061	Yes, I know why. Your generic composite longbow gives a +1 to hit. Assuming that a character has 17-18 Dex, it gains a +2 to hit with ranged weapons, for +3 in total even with a beginning character. 19 Dex gives an additional +1, for +3 in total just from Dex. A fighter with ** in a melee weapon gets +1 to hit from specialization, and +1 (17+), +2 (18/51 - 18/99) or +3 (18/00) to hit from exceptional strength. So, if a fighter has Str between 17 and 18/51, it gains +2 to hit with a weapon it is specialized in - +1 from specialization and +1 from Str. A character with 17 or better Dex using a composite longbow gets +3 to hit in total (or +4 with 19 Dex). [img]smile.gif[/img] I'm not entirely sure if there is a penalty for using bows at pointblank range. There is in 2nd ed p&p, but I don't know offhand if the designers incorporated the penalty into IWD. I generally work under the assumption that there is such a penalty. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

01-16-2006, 09:17 AM	#3
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 57 Posts: 291	And the bow user gets 2 attacks per round while the sword/mace user only gets 1.5. I suspect that isn't what you meant by 'hits more often', but it certainly affects how much damage is done! __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

01-22-2006, 10:47 AM	#5
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 49 Posts: 1,168	If he's using a small shield, I don't think it protects against missile attacks. Different armors have different bonuses/penalties against missile attacks as well, but I don't know how your paladin got to that -11 AC (I need the armor and shield he's using). Also, I think those skeletal archers have a really great THAC0, so they're bound to hit more often, especially when considering that they attack twice as often as regular monsters. __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

01-22-2006, 10:48 AM	#6
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 49 Posts: 1,168	If he's using a small shield, I don't think it protects against missile attacks. Different armors have different bonuses/penalties against missile attacks as well, but I don't know how your paladin got to that -11 AC (I need the armor and shield he's using). Also, I think those skeletal archers have a really great THAC0, so they're bound to hit more often, especially when considering that they attack twice as often as regular monsters. __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

02-18-2006, 08:30 PM	#7
Dave G Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 5, 2006 Location: United States Age: 40 Posts: 48	I believe there is not penalty for shooting bows point-blank. If you change the feedback to display attack rolls, you won't notice any penalties. __________________ I\'ve never been wrong about anything I\'ve ever said ever in the history of things I\'ve said. It\'s more likely that your \"facts\" are wrong than that I am wrong.

01-16-2006, 02:07 AM	#1
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 53 Posts: 131	This is kind of strange. Anybody with 1* in bows hits more often than a fighter with 2* in mace/sword. I actually tuned my IWD to HoF and tested this out on the beetles. Anybody knows why? And, is there a penalty if my bows engage point blank? (Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not the brave warrior who hits the bad guy in the face. Go hide behind some summons and shoot em up. Don’t complain. Some of you might do this too.)

01-22-2006, 12:17 AM	#4
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 53 Posts: 131	In DE, my paladin has AC -11. He can go hand to hand with skeletons with minimal hits. But when faced with skeletons with bows, he gets hit often. Anyone knows why?

02-19-2006, 02:29 AM	#8
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 43 Posts: 2,061	Perhaps there isn't a penalty, but I believe attacking with a melee weapon against someone using a bow results in a bonus for the attacker. Enemy archers switch to melee weapons when you attack them in melee, and there would be no reason for them to do that if the attack rolls on both sides stayed the same. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-19-2006, 02:39 PM	#9
Kyrvias Lord Ao Join Date: May 15, 2005 Posts: 2,092	Yep. When using a ranged weapon in melee combat, the enemy/melee attacker gets a +4 To Hit, I believe.

02-20-2006, 05:12 PM	#10
wanderon Dungeon Master Join Date: January 31, 2006 Location: Valley of the Sun Age: 76 Posts: 81	Not sure how it was implemented in IWD but in BG1 the penalty for using the ranged weapons in melee range was -8 to hit...this did show up on the rolls when you display them. Thats why you would always see enemy archers or characters that had the "ranged" script frantically backing up to get away from enemies trying to close to melee distance and or switching to melee weapons. __________________ Not all those that wander are lost...

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