Egg On My Bard's Face?

[NobleNick]

All,

I was startled, yesterday, while researching some info on the Bard.

I have known, for a long time, that the "War Chant of the Sith" among other important things, affected the Bard's AC or THAC0 -AND- the enemies' AC or THAC0. I had forgotten which it was (AC or THAC0), and really didn't care: since it makes no difference in the equations whether it's a bonus to your AC or a penalty to enemy THAC0 that determines whether you take a hit. And similar story for whether or not you deliver a hit to the enemy.

Well, I decided I should set my rhetoric straight, for the benefit of those roleplayers who care about whether the benefit/penalty goes to AC or THAC0. The answer is that for the Bard's friends the benefit goes to AC (dropping it by 2 points). I verified, in game, that AC does drop by 2, and there is no affect on friendly THAC0. Based on that revelation, I would expect the song to affect enemy AC (as opposed to THAC0).

Now, here is the surprise: I couldn't find anything in the on-line community that says anything about the War Chant affecting enemy THAC0 or AC! I do not know how to easily verify, in game, that War Chant is affecting monster AC/THAC0; and my instruction manual is not easily accessible because the disks have been packed away for over two years. (I have a "no-CD" fix to my IWD/HoW/TotLM install.) Of the very little material I have found on-line and in this forum. nothing mentions any effect of the Bard's War Chant on enemy stats.

I am stunned. Am I in the Twilight Zone? I know I didn't make this stuff up (about the War Chant affecting the enemy); but I am at a temporary loss to even point to the reason I THINK I am right, much less prove my case. What really surprises me is that I am unable to unearth any extant posts on the subject (other than my own) that reference other sources.

Dundee Slaytern, you, the Great Oracle Of IWD Knowledge, are the only one left who frequents this forum who was also here doling out flawless data when I was a plebe. Help me now, Mr. Wizard: What's the story on the effect of War Chant on the enemy's stats?

Anyone else, who knows how to unquestionably verify the affect of this Bard's song (i.e. you have deep and excellent IWD game experience and a very good memory, or are using a game editor/parser), please speak up.

Thank you.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[pritchke]

NobleNick I don't think this song affects enemies only that the amount of damage they can do will be reduced due to the allies having higher resistances. I believe the song gives +10% resistance to crushing, missile attacks, piercing, and slashing, to all allies thus reducing the amount of damage the enemy does. That is pretty much a penalty to all monsters except spellcasters. The only song that I know of that actually targets enemies is The Siren's Yearning.


[ 10-14-2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[ZFR]

I can unquestinably verify that other than the SY no song affects enemies....

if in options you chose feedback to give you the to hit rolls you'll notice it doesnt affect enemies rolls...

The WCoS gives -2AC 10% resistance (cumulative with other resistances) and regeneration 2HP/round to allies...

[Dancing Virginia]

And while we're on the topic...how often can a bard play any particular song? Can I just play the same one over and over again or can you only play a song once in any given day?

Cary

[Aerich]

ZFR and pritchke have it right, AFAIK.

And Cary, you can play a particular song 24/7, if you wish. Some of us do.

[NobleNick]

Cary,

War Chant of the Sith, 24/7, with very short interruptions to call Berserkers and throw a spell or two. No matter how this current issue plays out, Bards still rock.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[silencer]

If you wish to be absolutely certain here's the spell in question: link.

All positive effects - 0xCE is spell immunity (and, I imagine, setting protection against the spell to bard and enemies).

[Dundee Slaytern]

From the CD-Manual,

BARDS Bards have a number of new songs in addition to their starting song (The Ballad of the Three Heroes). Unless otherwise noted, all bard songs have a radius of 30 feet. The Ballad of the Three Heroes. Bards start the game with the ability to play this ballad. When the Ballad of Three Heroes is played, all the bard's allies gain +1 to hit, +1 damage, and +1 saving throws. The Tale of Curran Strongheart. Bards gain this song at 3rd level. When the Tale of Curran Strongheart is being played, any fear effect on the bard's allies are removed, and they gain an immunity to fear effects for as long as the song lasts. Tymora's Melody. Bards gain this sonng at 5th level. When played, Tymora's Melody gives the bard's allies +1 luck, +3 saving throws, and +10% to their lore skill and thief skills. The Song of Kaudies. Bards gain this song at 7th level. When the Song of Kaudies is played, the bard's allies have a 50% chance to shrug off the effects of spells such as Silence, Shout, Great Shout, Command, or any other sound-based attacks. The Siren's Yearning. Bards gain the Siren's Yearning at 9th level. When played, the bard's enemies must save vs. spell or be enthralled, unable to take action until 1 turn passes or they take damage. War Chant of Sith. The War Chant of Sith becomes available to bards when they reach 11th level. When played, the bard's allies gain -2 bonus to AC, +10% Resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing, and missile attacks, and the ability to regenerate 2 hit points every round.

[NobleNick]

All,

Thank you for your replies. I found ZFR's and silencer's posts with hard data especially helpful. Pritchke, nice to hear from you again!

Dundee, I have the same excerpt you just gave, in one of my old e-mails. You were my last bastion of hope in remembering any conversation that there might have been about a schism between the documentation and the actual game play; or at least some reasonable explanation for why I am just plain dead wrong on this.

O.K., time to throw in the towel. I hereby apologze to all whom I may have led astray. Bards don't really, REALLY rock in a fighter-heavy party. They just really rock in a fighter-heavy party.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Dundee Slaytern]

The War Chant of Sith benefits Druids greatly too, not just Fighters( or Warrior-type characters in general, inclusive of Paladins and Rangers).

Druids can change into the Water Elemental which has physical resistances to... Slashing Damage I believe. I am a bit fuzzy on the numbers now, but I remember that the resistance was not 100%, but close to 90%.

The War Chant of Sith adds 10% to this score, making the Water Elemental's Slashing Damage Resistance into Slashing Damage Immunity. This is especially cheesy on many areas.

The Druid also has the ability to summon the Shambling Mound, which has immunity to fire and 90% resistance to Crushing Damage. Throw in the War Chant of Sith, and it becomes immunity to fire AND Crushing Damage. This nullifies Fire Giants and Remorahazs(sp?).

The examples I have just mentioned are merely the tip of the iceberg of what you can do with a Druid/Bard tag-team.

Simplistically speaking, a Bard enhances the party's strength.