tactics, mages, and introduction *minor spoiler*

perlninja · 06-04-2003, 03:02 AM

Hello all,

I acquired IWD and HoW a couple of days ago, and had such trouble keeping my mage alive that I aborted that party and started over. I found a couple of good threads on the topic of mage weakness and babying your mage in this forum, and among the overwhelming sentiments was that they are XP leeches for the first few levels but they REALLY start paying their way as the game progresses, in fact becoming indispensable. Case in point: the half-elven enchanter who is the mage in my second party. I just had the first battle where she owned. There is a a long corridor on level 2 of the Temple of the Forgotten God. A little ways beyond the trapped floor panel is a group of 3 Verbeegs behind which are 2 acolytes. One of the acolytes immediately casts Entanglement so you're stuck. Enter my enchantress. What follows is, I guess, like the IWD equivalent of a StarCraft battle report (before replays were the thing

:

All my characters default to missile weapons, so Entanglement doesn't really hinder them offensively. As soon as the enemies came into view, 5 members of my party opened fire on the same acolyte while my enchantress cast Grease in front of the advancing Verbeegs. Then she cast Haste on the party and my cleric cast Prayer. In the time it took the Verbeegs to finally get close to my party I had killed both acolytes and 1 Verbeeg. The other two fell before they actually closed the last little distance to land a blow.

I'm actually really proud of this little battle; it went like clockwork. Posting it is meant to say "you were right" about mages coming into their own (by the way, she hasn't died yet, this time around), to wave the magic-users flag in general, and to introduce myself to this forum.

I am really enjoying my experience with IWD, even more than with BG2, although methinks I shall have to give that another look soon. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Cheers all,

perlninja

Dundee Slaytern · 06-04-2003, 04:14 AM

Cheers perlninja, and welcome to the forum.

perlninja? You must have one solid code of honour, haha, okay, that was bad.

If you are playing on Core Difficulty, a Specialist Mage is desirable due to the extra spell slots. In your case, you have chosen the Enchanter.

One of the main limiting factor for a Mage in IWD is that he/she needs to wait for the available scroll before he/she can cast that spell. Thus his/her powers are determined by where in the game is he/she. I would say that come Chapter 3-4, you will begin to enjoy your Mage even more. Be prepared to spend though, and remember that as each Chapter unfolds, Orrick the Mage may update his inventory, so be sure to check them out on a regular basis.

pritchke · 06-04-2003, 04:18 PM

Welcome perlninja!!!!

I love having a Specialist Mage in my party. While they are weak at the start as you go up levels and learn more and more spells they become very useful. While many people prefer to go without I find they make going through the game a little easier.

Good use of the mage besides damaging badies is buffing tanks, or even use them as a decoy (stone skin, mirror image).

IWD certainly has perks over BG2 that many fail to realize.

Big Buffalo · 06-05-2003, 12:46 PM

I let my Mage toss out thier couple of spells, if there is still a fight, I'll send him for a walk. Not far, but out of harms way. I like them to have missles, but it after all is a distance weapon. This hurts if the bad guys come from behind. Later on my Mage will kick butt, but the start is a time to take it slow.

NobleNick · 06-05-2003, 04:01 PM

Welcome to the boards, perlninja! And you, too, Big Buffalo!
[img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

(Dundee, I thought that was a really good joke, especially if perlninja isn't into SW.)

perlninja, What you are experiencing is normal. My party spent the entire Prologue and start of chapter 1 keeping Sashii (my gnome thief/Illusionist muticlass) alive. It was a full time job. But by the time the party hit Dragon's Eye, she was my most versatile, valuable and lethal party member. She still can't take much punishment, but BOY, can she dish it out!

A little off subject, but since you have HoW, the bard is almost a "must have," and a druid is not a bad idea, either. Both are MUCH more powerful FOR THE ENTIRE GAME (not just HoW areas) with HoW expansion installed.

What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party on!!

perlninja · 06-05-2003, 04:57 PM

Actually, I just got to Dragon's Eye the other day...goes to show how people's experiences can differ so much, since now my enchantress has armor class of -1 (so she can take punishment) but she hasn't found a lot of offensive spells that make her "lethal" per se. Funny, that.

Larry_OHF · 06-05-2003, 05:57 PM

Don't forget to buy IWDII!!! It is even more battle-intensive than this game!

As for thie topic in discussion, I have never been able to endure the time it takes to let my mages become strong. I mean...I get them all sorts of good spells, but end up giving them missle weapon assignments like darts or bullets in a sling. It is something I must remedy soon. I would like to someday have such a glorious battle as the one mentioned in the first post.

Morgeruat · 06-06-2003, 02:11 PM

*grins* I'm glad you found out how much fun mages can be, I did the first town with a mage solo (I thought that like BG1 & 2 you could pick up party members my first time through) and got enough spells to make him almost lvl 2 before i made the rest of the party, it's a tactic i'd recomend to almost anyone, although taking out the wolf with my mage's puny dagger was likely more luck than anything, and i didn't need the party until i met the goblins.

I hope you have a backup mage (preferably an invoker) to get the spells an enchanter can't (Invo/Evo ie fireballs, lightning, cones of cold, and snowball swarms) i don't recall if you can use them from scrolls so that may negate a large amount of the penalties. anyway glad you're enjoying the game and welcome to the board Perlninja and BigBuffalo

Aragorn1 · 06-07-2003, 10:28 AM

My mage is still very weak in dragon's eye, with few offensive spells. It is really annoying as i know the value of a mage having played bg 1+2 and ID2,at in this game my mage s just not living up to expectations, he is really still just a magic missile machine. Although it is godd all-round spell, i want some fire and acid spell to deal with the trolls, it is costing me many flaming oils and special arrows! Like someone said, peoples experiences differ greatly! I am alos having trouble learing alot of spells, is it affected by the time of day, as both my mage and my cleric/mage seem to be better after sleeping?

[ 06-07-2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Aragorn1 ]

Midget Gems · 06-09-2003, 03:05 PM

For me, finding interesting ways to use Magic is one of the best parts of the game. But if there's one thing I like better than a Mage , it's a Cleric/Mage or better still a Fighter/Mage. There are so many more options if you can get your Mage into the front line without fear of getting hit too often. The key to this is using good protection spells and Mirror Image is my favorite.

I agree with Aragorn that killing Trolls with fire spells is nice, the trick is to knock them down in a neat row and then take out a whole load of them with one Burning Hands or similar. By the way, I was using my Fighter/Illusionist recently to fight a whole gang of undead and I was standing on a narrow bridge so they couldn't all get at me. Then I thought let's try a Burning Hands on them and I scored about a dozen hits (worth 150 points) which is pretty good for a Level 1 spell. And another thing - look out for Fighter/Mage + Tensar's Transformation, it's wicked.

I agree about the problem of learning spells, no matter what "% to learn" I have, I still fail more times than I ought to, I can't figure it out.

06-04-2003, 03:02 AM	#1
perlninja Dungeon Master Join Date: June 1, 2003 Location: Victoria BC, Canada Age: 45 Posts: 65	Hello all, I acquired IWD and HoW a couple of days ago, and had such trouble keeping my mage alive that I aborted that party and started over. I found a couple of good threads on the topic of mage weakness and babying your mage in this forum, and among the overwhelming sentiments was that they are XP leeches for the first few levels but they REALLY start paying their way as the game progresses, in fact becoming indispensable. Case in point: the half-elven enchanter who is the mage in my second party. I just had the first battle where she owned. There is a a long corridor on level 2 of the Temple of the Forgotten God. A little ways beyond the trapped floor panel is a group of 3 Verbeegs behind which are 2 acolytes. One of the acolytes immediately casts Entanglement so you're stuck. Enter my enchantress. What follows is, I guess, like the IWD equivalent of a StarCraft battle report (before replays were the thing: All my characters default to missile weapons, so Entanglement doesn't really hinder them offensively. As soon as the enemies came into view, 5 members of my party opened fire on the same acolyte while my enchantress cast Grease in front of the advancing Verbeegs. Then she cast Haste on the party and my cleric cast Prayer. In the time it took the Verbeegs to finally get close to my party I had killed both acolytes and 1 Verbeeg. The other two fell before they actually closed the last little distance to land a blow. I'm actually really proud of this little battle; it went like clockwork. Posting it is meant to say "you were right" about mages coming into their own (by the way, she hasn't died yet, this time around), to wave the magic-users flag in general, and to introduce myself to this forum. I am really enjoying my experience with IWD, even more than with BG2, although methinks I shall have to give that another look soon. [img]smile.gif[/img] Cheers all, perlninja

06-05-2003, 12:46 PM	#4
Big Buffalo Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: June 3, 2003 Location: Milwaukee Age: 76 Posts: 9	I let my Mage toss out thier couple of spells, if there is still a fight, I'll send him for a walk. Not far, but out of harms way. I like them to have missles, but it after all is a distance weapon. This hurts if the bad guys come from behind. Later on my Mage will kick butt, but the start is a time to take it slow. __________________ Hit First, Hit Hard! Lest it be your last.

06-05-2003, 05:57 PM	#7
Larry_OHF Ironworks Moderator Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Midlands, South Carolina Age: 49 Posts: 14,759	Don't forget to buy IWDII!!! It is even more battle-intensive than this game! As for thie topic in discussion, I have never been able to endure the time it takes to let my mages become strong. I mean...I get them all sorts of good spells, but end up giving them missle weapon assignments like darts or bullets in a sling. It is something I must remedy soon. I would like to someday have such a glorious battle as the one mentioned in the first post. __________________

06-09-2003, 03:05 PM	#10
Midget Gems Avatar Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 34 Posts: 568	For me, finding interesting ways to use Magic is one of the best parts of the game. But if there's one thing I like better than a Mage , it's a Cleric/Mage or better still a Fighter/Mage. There are so many more options if you can get your Mage into the front line without fear of getting hit too often. The key to this is using good protection spells and Mirror Image is my favorite. I agree with Aragorn that killing Trolls with fire spells is nice, the trick is to knock them down in a neat row and then take out a whole load of them with one Burning Hands or similar. By the way, I was using my Fighter/Illusionist recently to fight a whole gang of undead and I was standing on a narrow bridge so they couldn't all get at me. Then I thought let's try a Burning Hands on them and I scored about a dozen hits (worth 150 points) which is pretty good for a Level 1 spell. And another thing - look out for Fighter/Mage + Tensar's Transformation, it's wicked. I agree about the problem of learning spells, no matter what "% to learn" I have, I still fail more times than I ought to, I can't figure it out. __________________ Midget Gems - Heroes in their own lunch time and creator of the Suicidal Gnomes.

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06-04-2003, 04:14 AM	#2
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Cheers perlninja, and welcome to the forum. perlninja? You must have one solid code* of honour, haha, okay, that was bad.* If you are playing on Core Difficulty, a Specialist Mage is desirable due to the extra spell slots. In your case, you have chosen the Enchanter. One of the main limiting factor for a Mage in IWD is that he/she needs to wait for the available scroll before he/she can cast that spell. Thus his/her powers are determined by where in the game is he/she. I would say that come Chapter 3-4, you will begin to enjoy your Mage even more. Be prepared to spend though, and remember that as each Chapter unfolds, Orrick the Mage may update his inventory, so be sure to check them out on a regular basis.

06-04-2003, 04:18 PM	#3
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 50 Posts: 3,491	Welcome perlninja!!!! I love having a Specialist Mage in my party. While they are weak at the start as you go up levels and learn more and more spells they become very useful. While many people prefer to go without I find they make going through the game a little easier. Good use of the mage besides damaging badies is buffing tanks, or even use them as a decoy (stone skin, mirror image). IWD certainly has perks over BG2 that many fail to realize.

06-05-2003, 04:01 PM	#5
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 64 Posts: 1,045	Welcome to the boards, perlninja! And you, too, Big Buffalo! [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img] (Dundee, I thought that was a really good joke, especially if perlninja isn't into SW.) perlninja, What you are experiencing is normal. My party spent the entire Prologue and start of chapter 1 keeping Sashii (my gnome thief/Illusionist muticlass) alive. It was a full time job. But by the time the party hit Dragon's Eye, she was my most versatile, valuable and lethal party member. She still can't take much punishment, but BOY, can she dish it out! A little off subject, but since you have HoW, the bard is almost a "must have," and a druid is not a bad idea, either. Both are MUCH more powerful FOR THE ENTIRE GAME (not just HoW areas) with HoW expansion installed. What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party on!!

06-05-2003, 04:57 PM	#6
perlninja Dungeon Master Join Date: June 1, 2003 Location: Victoria BC, Canada Age: 45 Posts: 65	Actually, I just got to Dragon's Eye the other day...goes to show how people's experiences can differ so much, since now my enchantress has armor class of -1 (so she can take punishment) but she hasn't found a lot of offensive spells that make her "lethal" per se. Funny, that.

06-06-2003, 02:11 PM	#8
Morgeruat Jack Burton Join Date: October 16, 2001 Location: PA Age: 44 Posts: 5,421	grins I'm glad you found out how much fun mages can be, I did the first town with a mage solo (I thought that like BG1 & 2 you could pick up party members my first time through) and got enough spells to make him almost lvl 2 before i made the rest of the party, it's a tactic i'd recomend to almost anyone, although taking out the wolf with my mage's puny dagger was likely more luck than anything, and i didn't need the party until i met the goblins. I hope you have a backup mage (preferably an invoker) to get the spells an enchanter can't (Invo/Evo ie fireballs, lightning, cones of cold, and snowball swarms) i don't recall if you can use them from scrolls so that may negate a large amount of the penalties. anyway glad you're enjoying the game and welcome to the board Perlninja and BigBuffalo

06-07-2003, 10:28 AM	#9
Aragorn1 Symbol of Cyric Join Date: July 3, 2001 Location: Cornwall England Age: 37 Posts: 1,197	My mage is still very weak in dragon's eye, with few offensive spells. It is really annoying as i know the value of a mage having played bg 1+2 and ID2,at in this game my mage s just not living up to expectations, he is really still just a magic missile machine. Although it is godd all-round spell, i want some fire and acid spell to deal with the trolls, it is costing me many flaming oils and special arrows! Like someone said, peoples experiences differ greatly! I am alos having trouble learing alot of spells, is it affected by the time of day, as both my mage and my cleric/mage seem to be better after sleeping? [ 06-07-2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Aragorn1 ]

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