Request for Mages explained...

Northraven · 04-09-2005, 02:17 PM

Okay I have been reading how Mages and Sorcerors rule over all...now I am a Hacker and Slasher at heart and have always played Baldur's Gate this way. It seems to work as I did beat it a few years ago and I am playing through again with much the same style and results. But I always read how solo Mages/Sorcerors/Wild Mages/Crazy Multiclassed Deathdealing Arcanists etc. own while soloing. I've never been that good at spending the time to come up with uses for many spells that aern't obviously nukes (the whole "bash away" thing again) can some of you Mage experts illuminate me on some of the best spells/spell combos for Mages/Sorcerors and how to use/play a Mage properly. I would like to try a Mage, since they get such rave reviews but I feel I never use my Mages properly to their full potential. Any advice help would be greatly appreciated.

Xen · 04-09-2005, 03:52 PM

Well there are powerful becuase of the spells that deal a lot of damage. Also they can protect themselves from (almost) everything there is. If you would like to find out more about them check this: http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Home.html

slimjimosu · 04-11-2005, 07:20 PM

Another good resource for solo mage ideas is the story of Elmonster on the Baldurdash site. It's a quest log/story of the entire BG II/TOB saga with a solo human mage. It's very well written and comes from the perspective of a true roleplayer. If you have trouble transitioning from a hack/slash style of play you might give it a read-thru for inspiration.

Keldin · 04-11-2005, 10:20 PM

I prefer my protagonist to be melee but I loved learning the magic system for my mages like Edwin, Nalia, etc to be effective. Here's some tips for you.

Using a mage to strip another mage:
===================================

Abbreviations:
PME = Protection from Magic Energy
PMW = Protection from Magical Weapons

There's two ways to strip combat protections like Stoneskin, PMW and Fireshields which is what causes your melee the most headaches. You can cast Breach or Remove/Dispel Magic. The problem with Remove/Dispel Magic is that if the enemy mage is 5+ levels above you(which is usually the case) then it only has a 1% chance of succeeding. If your PC is an Inquisitor or you have Keldorn in your group your odds are much better since Inquisitors dispell at twice their level. So if your Inqui is 13 and you are fighting a level 26 mage you have a 50% chance of Dispel working. Just keep your party away from a dispel since it will dispel your party members in the radius as well. Remove Magic will only effect the enemy but nobody can Remove Magic at 2x their level.

Where it really becomes annoying is when mages throw up the following contigencies:

Stoneskin
Protection From Magical Weapons
Protection From Magic Energy
Fireshield:Red
Spell Trap
Spell Shield
Spell Immunity:Abjuration

Guess what school remove and dispel magic belong to? Yep abjuration! You cannot dispel a mage who throws that up. Now you have to resort to other means of removing those protections like using Breach. Btw, you'll see Immunity:Abjuration a lot more often in the Tactics mod.

The problem with Breach is that usually mages throw up a Spell Trap like above. So first you have to cast Pierce Shield to remove Spell Trap then you can cast Breach. Then you get the mage who casts Spell Shield and Spell Trap. Spell Shield will negate the next magical attack against them. So before you cast Pierce Magic you need to waste something like Secret Word first. I,e. you would need to cast Secret Word, Pierce Magic, Breach to strip a mage like that. And odds are once you stip him and your melee hit him a contigency fires off that puts up that exact same defense and you have to repeat [img]smile.gif[/img]

Then you have mages who use Spell Immunity

ivination. What this means is that True Sight will not dispel their illusions and when you try to target them directly you get the message:
Spell Cancelled: Cannot target spells on invisible or sancturaried creatures
Doh! Now this situation kind of sucks, only an AOE dispel will work. If you have 2x dispel then you can usually remove their Stoneskin and PMW so melee can beat on them. If you don't then it's a waiting game for their immunity to divination to wear off because the Pierce Magic and Breach are direct target spells so they can't be cast on a sanctuaried mage.

But the fun part is when you reach sufficent levels to use the exact same tactics. Cast PMW, PME, Spell Trap, Spell Shield, Stoneskin, and Spell Immunity:Abjuration and now an enemy mage can't dispel you! This is just plain evil and most enemy mages don't what to do. You can walk around with almost impunity and just AOE everything in site and since you can't be dispelled the enemy can't hit you because of PMW and PME makes you immune to that highly annoying Horrid Wilting.

Fun fun stuff [img]smile.gif[/img] There's much more too like learning to use sequencers to fire off a couple greater malisions and a slow. Then there's the Spell Trigger to fire off 3 lower resistances which can lower almost any highly magic resistant to 0 in an instant.

[ 04-11-2005, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Keldin ]

K2Grey · 04-11-2005, 11:02 PM

IIRC, Breach bypasses Spell Trap. The Wand of Spell Striking is a Breach which bypasses Improved Invisibility (but not lich immunities). Time Stop + Staff of the Magi dispels everything.

[ 04-11-2005, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: K2Grey ]

Keldin · 04-11-2005, 11:17 PM

I stand corrected. Sheesh all this time I didn't think Breach bypassed Spell Trap but I just tried it and it did. Wow I feel stupid [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-11-2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Keldin ]

White Lancer · 04-12-2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K2GREY:Time Stop + Staff of the Magi dispels everything

Time stop + Carsomyr does a MUCH better job [img]smile.gif[/img]

Northraven · 04-12-2005, 02:20 AM

Thanks for all the replies so far. I am now going through the game with a Mage/Cleric and enjoying it quite a lot. It's different not being the melee powerhouse and the front man of the party but quite honestly I think I do more damage as a nuker than I ever did as a tank.

On a slightly unrelated note I have a question about protection from Magical/Protection from normal Missiles/Weapons: Is there a bug that makes the normal spell work for both normal and magical attacks...while I was killing some cowled wizard for Mae'Var he had a contingincy which put up Prot from Magical Weapons and Prot from Normal Missiles. I proceeded to attack him with normal weapons and Magical missiles and still my characters were exclaiming that their attacks were having no effect. Is this a known bug or am I just missing some subtle nuance?

White Lancer · 04-12-2005, 02:43 AM

I've never heard of it, but it could be a bug. Do you have the patch and fixpack installed?

Dundee Slaytern · 04-12-2005, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by White Lancer:

quote:
Originally posted by K2GREY:Time Stop + Staff of the Magi dispels everything

Time stop + Carsomyr does a MUCH better job [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]Not quite.

Carsomyr allows a save, the SotM does not.

04-09-2005, 02:17 PM	#1
Northraven Manshoon Join Date: July 13, 2001 Location: Currently a land called Weyrth... Age: 46 Posts: 195	Okay I have been reading how Mages and Sorcerors rule over all...now I am a Hacker and Slasher at heart and have always played Baldur's Gate this way. It seems to work as I did beat it a few years ago and I am playing through again with much the same style and results. But I always read how solo Mages/Sorcerors/Wild Mages/Crazy Multiclassed Deathdealing Arcanists etc. own while soloing. I've never been that good at spending the time to come up with uses for many spells that aern't obviously nukes (the whole "bash away" thing again) can some of you Mage experts illuminate me on some of the best spells/spell combos for Mages/Sorcerors and how to use/play a Mage properly. I would like to try a Mage, since they get such rave reviews but I feel I never use my Mages properly to their full potential. Any advice help would be greatly appreciated. __________________ \"Before the world was bent but after the great contagion, there was a civilization built in the image of the First Age. It sought to emulate the splendor of the bygone Golden Age, but it was in all ways less. It was a time of sorcery and heroism, of fabulous wonders and treacherous betrayals. Ruled by a decadent empire, it slipped inch by inch into barbarism and darkness, until one last cataclysm blotted it out forever. Yet, in it\'s sunset, it was a splendid thing, and glorious were the deeds of the Exalted.\"<br /><br />[url]\"http://www.sloganizer.net/en/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,Severed-spc-Fist.png\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

04-11-2005, 10:20 PM	#4
Keldin Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: April 10, 2005 Location: San Jose Age: 60 Posts: 17	I prefer my protagonist to be melee but I loved learning the magic system for my mages like Edwin, Nalia, etc to be effective. Here's some tips for you. Using a mage to strip another mage: =================================== Abbreviations: PME = Protection from Magic Energy PMW = Protection from Magical Weapons There's two ways to strip combat protections like Stoneskin, PMW and Fireshields which is what causes your melee the most headaches. You can cast Breach or Remove/Dispel Magic. The problem with Remove/Dispel Magic is that if the enemy mage is 5+ levels above you(which is usually the case) then it only has a 1% chance of succeeding. If your PC is an Inquisitor or you have Keldorn in your group your odds are much better since Inquisitors dispell at twice their level. So if your Inqui is 13 and you are fighting a level 26 mage you have a 50% chance of Dispel working. Just keep your party away from a dispel since it will dispel your party members in the radius as well. Remove Magic will only effect the enemy but nobody can Remove Magic at 2x their level. Where it really becomes annoying is when mages throw up the following contigencies: Stoneskin Protection From Magical Weapons Protection From Magic Energy Fireshield:Red Spell Trap Spell Shield Spell Immunity:Abjuration Guess what school remove and dispel magic belong to? Yep abjuration! You cannot dispel a mage who throws that up. Now you have to resort to other means of removing those protections like using Breach. Btw, you'll see Immunity:Abjuration a lot more often in the Tactics mod. The problem with Breach is that usually mages throw up a Spell Trap like above. So first you have to cast Pierce Shield to remove Spell Trap then you can cast Breach. Then you get the mage who casts Spell Shield and Spell Trap. Spell Shield will negate the next magical attack against them. So before you cast Pierce Magic you need to waste something like Secret Word first. I,e. you would need to cast Secret Word, Pierce Magic, Breach to strip a mage like that. And odds are once you stip him and your melee hit him a contigency fires off that puts up that exact same defense and you have to repeat [img]smile.gif[/img] Then you have mages who use Spell Immunityivination. What this means is that True Sight will not dispel their illusions and when you try to target them directly you get the message: Spell Cancelled: Cannot target spells on invisible or sancturaried creatures Doh! Now this situation kind of sucks, only an AOE dispel will work. If you have 2x dispel then you can usually remove their Stoneskin and PMW so melee can beat on them. If you don't then it's a waiting game for their immunity to divination to wear off because the Pierce Magic and Breach are direct target spells so they can't be cast on a sanctuaried mage. But the fun part is when you reach sufficent levels to use the exact same tactics. Cast PMW, PME, Spell Trap, Spell Shield, Stoneskin, and Spell Immunity:Abjuration and now an enemy mage can't dispel you! This is just plain evil and most enemy mages don't what to do. You can walk around with almost impunity and just AOE everything in site and since you can't be dispelled the enemy can't hit you because of PMW and PME makes you immune to that highly annoying Horrid Wilting. Fun fun stuff [img]smile.gif[/img] There's much more too like learning to use sequencers to fire off a couple greater malisions and a slow. Then there's the Spell Trigger to fire off 3 lower resistances which can lower almost any highly magic resistant to 0 in an instant. [ 04-11-2005, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Keldin ]

04-12-2005, 02:20 AM	#8
Northraven Manshoon Join Date: July 13, 2001 Location: Currently a land called Weyrth... Age: 46 Posts: 195	Thanks for all the replies so far. I am now going through the game with a Mage/Cleric and enjoying it quite a lot. It's different not being the melee powerhouse and the front man of the party but quite honestly I think I do more damage as a nuker than I ever did as a tank. On a slightly unrelated note I have a question about protection from Magical/Protection from normal Missiles/Weapons: Is there a bug that makes the normal spell work for both normal and magical attacks...while I was killing some cowled wizard for Mae'Var he had a contingincy which put up Prot from Magical Weapons and Prot from Normal Missiles. I proceeded to attack him with normal weapons and Magical missiles and still my characters were exclaiming that their attacks were having no effect. Is this a known bug or am I just missing some subtle nuance? __________________ \"Before the world was bent but after the great contagion, there was a civilization built in the image of the First Age. It sought to emulate the splendor of the bygone Golden Age, but it was in all ways less. It was a time of sorcery and heroism, of fabulous wonders and treacherous betrayals. Ruled by a decadent empire, it slipped inch by inch into barbarism and darkness, until one last cataclysm blotted it out forever. Yet, in it\'s sunset, it was a splendid thing, and glorious were the deeds of the Exalted.\"<br /><br />[url]\"http://www.sloganizer.net/en/\" target=\"_blank\"> [img]\"http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,Severed-spc-Fist.png\" alt=\" - \" /></a>

04-12-2005, 02:43 AM	#9
White Lancer Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: August 30, 2002 Location: Australia Age: 39 Posts: 628	I've never heard of it, but it could be a bug. Do you have the patch and fixpack installed? __________________ It deons\'t mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, it olny mtaetrs taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be croecrt. The rset can be a tatol mses and you can sitll raed it. The huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

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04-09-2005, 03:52 PM	#2
Xen Symbol of Moradin Join Date: June 5, 2002 Location: Slovenia,Ljubljana Age: 37 Posts: 8,554	Well there are powerful becuase of the spells that deal a lot of damage. Also they can protect themselves from (almost) everything there is. If you would like to find out more about them check this: http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Home.html

04-11-2005, 07:20 PM	#3
slimjimosu Dungeon Master Join Date: March 8, 2003 Location: Ohio, USA Age: 46 Posts: 75	Another good resource for solo mage ideas is the story of Elmonster on the Baldurdash site. It's a quest log/story of the entire BG II/TOB saga with a solo human mage. It's very well written and comes from the perspective of a true roleplayer. If you have trouble transitioning from a hack/slash style of play you might give it a read-thru for inspiration.

04-11-2005, 11:02 PM	#5
K2Grey Dungeon Master Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Illinois, USA Age: 41 Posts: 64	IIRC, Breach bypasses Spell Trap. The Wand of Spell Striking is a Breach which bypasses Improved Invisibility (but not lich immunities). Time Stop + Staff of the Magi dispels everything. [ 04-11-2005, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: K2Grey ]

04-11-2005, 11:17 PM	#6
Keldin Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: April 10, 2005 Location: San Jose Age: 60 Posts: 17	I stand corrected. Sheesh all this time I didn't think Breach bypassed Spell Trap but I just tried it and it did. Wow I feel stupid [img]smile.gif[/img] [ 04-11-2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Keldin ]

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