Opinions on Weimer Mods

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I just recently got my home PC out of the shop after having several components upgraded. An unfortunate side effect of this upgrade is that ALL of my games have to be re-installed on my new hard drive (but I DID manage to Save copies of the BGII games I had played on my old machine).

Since I have to start from scratch, I was giving a fresh look at the various Weimer Mods. I've already installed Ease-of-Use, Tactics, and Items Upgrade Mod. I also have the Kelsey NPC Mod because I was having my female kensai romance him in one of my Saved games.

As I look over the list of available Mods, I see several more I would like to install (since I have much more space to spare on the new HD). So I would like to get the opinion of other members on these various Mods. How well do they work? Do they add a lot to the game play? And are they all compatable with each other? This last question is the most important. Since I'm considering so many Mods, I would like to know if I'm installing too many Mods and increasing my risk of incompatibility errors. I would also like to know which Mods are most highly recommended by other members, so that I will know which ones I should keep if I DO have to narrow my list down.

As of now, I ONLY have the 4 mods installed that I listed previously. Here are the other Mods I'm considering:


1. Valen NPC
2. Solaufein NPC
3. Oversight Mod (would like to know first hand experiences of what changes this causes).
4. Unfinished Business Mod (does this carry through on the quest that included the group with Celestial Fury and the ones with the Staff of Magi?).
5. Tashia NPC (Undecided if I really want to add yet another NPC, but I'm at least considering her for now).
6. Valygar Romance
7. The Magnificent Magical Shop
8. Elven Charm/Sleep Resistance Fix

As you can see, that's a lot of Mods to consider installing. Is that too much? Will it slow down the game play? Or will it all go smoothly once the various installations are complete?

Again, I especially want to know which Mods other members liked best. Thanks for your help.

[LennonCook]

Of those, only 1 & 2 (and 3 of the 4 you have installed already) are Weimer mods (as in, made & released by Weimer)
I do not like Valen and Solaufein much myself. Neither of them struck me as a well-developed characters, and neither has any extra voicing than what is in the unmodded game - which is only the occasional selection sound.

Unfinished Business is *EXCELLENT*. Everything is well thought out, everything makes sense.

I haven't tried Oversight personally, but I've heard nothing but good things about it.

The Magnificent Magical Shop apparently stocks some very powerful items very early in the game. Although I haven't tried this one myself either, the general recomendation I've seen is to avoid it.

Tashia's dialogue is reported to be good, but apparently does not fit in with the original game. Her personal item is apparently VERY overpowered, and since you already have Kelsey, you might not want another sorcerer in the same party - they will tend to take over from your PC.

I consider the Elven Charm/Sleep resistance fix to be as important as a bug fix, and you might consider the other things in that pack, too.

In general, mods will not slow your game down, as they don't touch how the game handles things like graphics, and they don't add movies at every corner or anything. Your game should run perfectly even if you install every mutually compatible mod you can find. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Specific details about what UB and Oversight do can be found in their readmes. Online readmes can usually be found linked to in the same place as the mods themselves. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-13-2004, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

[Lord]

2. The Sola mod was buggy for me...don't use it. It's fun, but he's overpowered any way.
4. The UB mod is awesome, although it doesn't currently do anything with the CF and the Twisted Ruins connection. Don't install the 'Restored Hell Minions' part if you've got Improved Final Battle from the Tactic's mod, because Icelus isn't sure if they're compatable in that component...I doubt they are.
6. The Valygar Romance is part of UB. I haven't personally tried it because I've been doing solos for a while, but I'll get back to parties soon for more fun and test it out.
8. This is from the Rogue Rebalancing mod, and I recommend that you install all of it. It's a really good mod with one incredibly challenging battle (at lesat for a solo player).

The order that you should install is:

1. SoA (or ToB, depending on version) Official Patch
2. SoA (or ToB, depending on version) Fixpack
3. Non-weidu mods. This one won't apply to the mods that you mentioned.
4. Weido monds. If you use the mods listed above that I mentioned, the correct order would be:[list=1][*]Kelsey NPC Mod[*]Tashia NPC Mod (if you do go for it)[*]Solaufein NPC Mod (buggy)[*]Valen (no idea how it is.[*][*]Ascension (it wasn't on your list, but I highly recommend it. It's a great mod. Only install if you've got ToB).[*]Tactics Mod[*]Unfinished Business[*]Redemption (also not on your list, but it's a great add-on to Ascension and can make the ToB final battle funner or more challenging, depending on your chioce. Only install it if you'ove got ToB).[*]Rogue rebalancing[*]Ease of Use[*]Item Upgrade

Have fun!

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Thanks for the advice guys. I wasn't real concerned with adding any NPC's other than Kelsey, but I know a lot of members like Solaufein. And there is one component of the Kelsey Mod that requires Solaufein to be installed. Still, I'm not all that keen on adding him.

I had planned to add Valen to the party being led by my assassin. I'm playing an all-evil party in that game and figured she would be the perfect addition to it...but once I read more about her powers, I felt she was too powerful and too much trouble. Besides, I've got Korgan, Viconia, Edwin, Yoshimo and Jaheira in addition to my assassin. So far, I haven't met anything that group couldn't handle (although we had a helluva time with an undead guy in Windspear).

Lord - I hadn't really considered the Ascension Mod because I've not played in ToB yet (though I DO have it installed). I've also heard a couple of members complain that Ascension makes the final battle unbeatable. But I think that's just a matter of tactics. I admit that I thought I would NEVER defeat Irenicus in Hell - especially in the first round where I have to face the 5 different "aspects" of his personality. I honostly have no idea how many times it took me to finally win that fight...but I did eventually get past it. If I install Ascension, I agree that Redemption seems to be an automatic addition to it.

The one problem I have is that - as you can see from my first post - there is no way I could follow the same order of installing the Mods that you listed, since I have already installed some that you have towards the end of the list. Will the order of installation really matter that much? If so, I guess I could always go back and Un-install the ones I have and then Re-install them in the proper order.

Oh - and thanks for recommending the Rogue Re-Balancing Mod. That was another one I had been considering but forgot to add to my list.

So it looks like I will definitely be installing Unfinished Business, Oversight, Rogue Rebalance, Elven Charm/Sleep Repair, and the Magic Shop. I also want the Valygar Romance because I've created a couple of female NPC's and want them to have more options than just Anomen and Kelsey. But since the Valygar Romance is a component of UB, it sounds like it will be covered by that.

Thanks again for all the info. I appreciate the warnings about the Magic Shop being too powerful. I'm not really worried about that. I don't want to give my characters super-poweful items - I just want to give them more options in the magical dept.

[LennonCook]

The Valygar Romance is *NOT* part of Unfinished Business. The components of UB are:

1. The Kidnapping of Boo, by Cliffette 2. The Suna Seni/Valygar Relationship Restoration 3. Kalah and What He Was Promised, by Andyr 4. Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest 5. The Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest 6. Restored Crooked Crane 7. Restored City Encounters 8. Artemis Entreri in Bodhi's Lair 9. Item Restorations 10. NPC Portrait Restorations 11. Corrected BAMs 12. Restored Hell Hound Encounters 13. Corrected "Xzar's Creations" 14. Corrected Character Names 15. Restored Minor Dialogs 16. The Greyhand Encounter 17. Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0 18. Restored Bhaalspawn Powers, by David Gaider 19. Cat and Mouse: Bodhi Hunts You in Spellhold, by Ghreyfain 20. Yoshimo's Original Portrait 21. Anomen's Original Portrait 22. Gorf the Squisher Fix, by Gebhard Blucher

The only Valygar Romance that seems to be in distribution at the moment, is the Corthala Romantique.

The installation order doesn't matter too much. Ascension is generally recomended to go on early,and Redemption *must* go after it. Other than that, Ease is usually best to go on fairly late, while Virtue, if you use it, should go on last. Other than that, see the readmes - anything that *has* to happen is atleast mentioned in them. And since they're all WeiDU, you should be otherwise fairly right in installing them in whatever order you see fit. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Nerull]

1. Valen NPC: The good thing about her is that she forces you to play evil (if you are an evil party, that is). However, she is way overpowered. I am seriously considering uninstalling her and installing Silver Star or another evil thief.
2. Solaufein NPC: Never tried this one, because I heard how overpowered he is. I've heard the dialog is excellent, so tempted to add him. But considering I like my games without Tactics, Item Upgrade, etc. I probably would find him overpowered.
3. Oversight Mod: Most recommended mod on this list. Some of the things it does: fixes NPC alignments and Innocent designations so that they make sense with the person's behavior, fixes the cleric alignments to what they would be in paper (i.e. you have to be one step from the deity's actual alignment to join that temple), fixes the ranger/cleric bug that prevents them from getting the cleric stronghold, changes the monk's HLA to match a certain NPC monk from ToB. One of the components improves one of the NPCs that is not improved with Tactics or Ascension.
4. Unfinished Business Mod: I haven't tried this one yet. I'm waiting for the version that actually includes the linking quest(s) you are speaking of.
5. Tashia NPC: Never tried her, mainly because I have Kelsey installed. No need for two NPC sorcerers of similar alignment. I've heard the dialog is good, though.
6. Valygar Romance: haven't heard about this one.
7. The Magnificent Magical Shop: I haven't tried this one either, because I've heard how overpowered it is as well. However, if you are playing with the Item Upgrade mod, then you might as well go all the way and add this.
8. Elven Charm/Sleep Resistance Fix: part of Rogue Rebalancing, which falls right under Oversight on my recommendation list. Does things that make sense (i.e. changes HLA to fit the kit involved, etc.).

All of the mods listed should be compatible with one another, and should not slow your game down.

[ 06-13-2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Nerull ]

What skin does Valen have? Usuall thief skill or the vampire skin?

[jcompton]

Corthala Romantique IS the "Valygar Romance." There is an earlier version of it embedded in the Tortured Souls mod, but as far as released mods goes, that's all there is.

[SixOfSpades]

WEIMER MODS:
Ease-of-Use: It's up to the end user to judge what is best. I like to go for components that improve my enjoyment without actually affecting battle odds, such as "Bottomless Bag of Holding" and "Female Edwina." By the same token, I don't install things that seem more like cheats to me, such as "Wear magical Rings/Amulets with Magical Armor," or the "Shapeshifter Rebalancing" that affects anyone who casts Conjure Animals.
Tactics: Again, the individual components are what matter here: The difference between the "Improved Twisted Rune" and the "Red Badge Encounter" is a formidable gulf, indeed. Adding on to my Review, I give the Improved Demons a B- and the Tougher Druid Grove a C (The Druid Grove itself is a B+, but Improved Faldorn rating a D- drags it down a lot).
Items Upgrade Mod: Once again, it's user discretion. Whether you go for benign equipment like the Boots of the Hornet and Improved Aeger's Hide, or for overpowered gear such as Improved Staff of the Woodlands or Soul Reaver+6 is up to you.
Valen: A lot of people consider this to be Weimer's most overpowered work yet, but I can't speak personally because I'll never download it. From what I've heard, she's a Multiclassed Fighter/Assassin who, about 2/3rds of the way into SoA, gains the stats of an Elder Vampire, which essentially translates to "superhuman in every respect." She drains 4 levels on every hit, she reverts to an unkillable Gaseous Form when she gets to Near Death, and basically her only drawbacks are that she's useless in daylight and she likes killing Innocents.
Solaufein: The fact that he's a Fighter/Mage with good stats and 64% Magic Resistance was enough to make me wary. Then I heard that his Sola-specific battle is against a group of enemies who are all immune to Time Stop, and who cast it repeatedly.....and Sola can beat all of them, by himself. Another one I will never download.


aVENGER MODS:
Rogue Rebalancing: An all-around excellent mod. Does things like allowing all the Thief & Bard kits to put +++ in Dual-wielding, allowing Bounty Hunters to Tranquilize their prey & learn the Tracking skill, knocks the whole Bard Song thing into a shape that actually makes sense, reintroduces a whole slew of the items from BG1 that weren't carried into BG2, etc. The only bad things I could possibly say about it are a bit of queerness connected with the Short Sword of Backstabbing, and that the Item Description pic for the Returning Frost Dart could have been better.
Shadow Thief Improvements: Instead of installing this, just punch yourself in the face real hard. This will cause about the same amount of pain, but will save you about 2 hours of frustration. If you're working for Bodhi, STI is literally worse than any Weimer battle I've ever played. It cannot be beaten without massive amounts of cheese.
Elven Charm/Sleep Resistance Fix: As the name says, more of a bugfix than anything else. Why not?
Chosen of Cyric Encounter: A party of 6 adventurers, with smart AI, who give some decent EXP and unique items when/if you kill them. Sounds good, but I take issue with the placement of them: They appear right after you kill Bodhi in Chapter 6 (meaning, you're most likely down at least 1 party member), and you can't leave the map until you've beaten them. If this were a random Waylay or something, I'd play it, but I just don't like the situation.


UNFINISHED BUSINESS:
The Kidnapping of Boo--Good, but buggy. icelus says he's fixed the "Missing Pants" bug, but I've noticed that even after the quest is complete, Minsc still has loneliness issues. Wait for Version 10, at least.
The Suna Seni/Valygar Relationship Restoration--I can't find anything good to say about this. Makes it more difficult to recruit Valygar (even without the fact that his dialogue hits a "NO VALID REPLIES OR LINKS" and you have to use Ctrl-Q), Suna's dialogue is trite and unconvincing, she appears in the wrong place at the wrong time, and she's unkillable when she does so. This may just be my funky computer, though.
Kalah and What He Was Promised--A very good addition. The only possible change I would suggest is correcting the way a certain NPC won't cut to the chase.
Gorje Hilldark and the Extended Illithium Quest--Eef dese boys ere Duergar, why de eck dey talkin like deyse from Minnesouta? Not really compatible with the "Improved Demons" component of Tactics. Other than that, it basically adds 40 hours and a bunch of new dialogue to the Illithium quest.
The Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest--Nicely thought out, but I wish there was a way to actually get the sword....and now the total number of Spider's Banes is up to three: One in Rogue Rebalancing, one in UB, one in Tactics. UB should collaborate with Weimer and aVENGER, ideally resulting in a quick visit to Cromwell after you're done with Pai'Na.
Restored Crooked Crane--It's all good.
Restored City Encounters--I think this was what installed those "Shady Characters"....why not, although it's barely even noticeable.
Artemis Entreri in Bodhi's Lair--If you like that sort of thing.
Item Restorations--Yes. Shazellim+1 actually makes sense now!
NPC Portrait Restorations--Learn what Sir Ryan Trawl looks like? Why not?!
Corrected BAMs--Goody.
Restored Hell Hound Encounters--They also appear in 2 other parts of the game, and have a "Why not" flavor to them.
Corrected "Xzar's Creations"--Why not?
Corrected Character Names--Good.
Restored Minor Dialogs--Good.
The Greyhand Encounter--Very minor, just adds some flavor and injects a missing item back into the game.
Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0--I haven't gotten to this yet, but hopefully it'll be a nice middle ground between Improved Irenicus and the original.
Restored Bhaalspawn Powers--Same as in Ascension.
Cat and Mouse: Bodhi Hunts You in Spellhold--Haven't experienced it, but sounds okay.
Yoshimo's Original Portrait--I like it.
Anomen's Original Portrait--I prefer the default.
Gorf the Squisher Fix--Also included in the "Improved Copper Coronet" of Tactics.

Ascension: I've actually never gotten this far; I tend to get tired of a party by the time I hit Abazigal. But it sounds good, if you like that kind of challenge.
Kelsey: Apart from a few minor bugs, which may just be my computer, Kelsey is gold.
Tashia: Never used her--I hear that she's okay, but very picky about who she works with, and especially whom she Romances--her LoveTalks have been described as a "conversational minefield." If you deem her item overpowered, you could just toss it away.
The Magnificent Magical Shop: Never installed it--I hear the items are hella overpowered.
NPC Kits: A collection of optional things like making Viconia a Nightcloak of Shar, Minsc a Rashemaar Ranger, Korgan a Battlerager, Nalia an Adventurer, Anomen a Priest of Helm (or Berserker)....that sort of thing.
NPC Tweaks: More radical changes like turning Valygar into a Kensai, Cernd into a Totemic Druid...etc. All optional.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

UPDATE: I finally got a new copy of BGII and it allowed me to do a Full Install. [img]graemlins/yippee.gif[/img]

I sincerely appreciate all the advice on the various Mods. I have downloaded several (including Ascension and Redemption - which I had not planned to DL originally). I did NOT download the Maginificant Magic Shop because the link at WeiDu took me to a forum instead of a download page. Same thing happened with the Valygar Romance. So I didn't DL either of those. I also decided to just skip ALL of the NPC's except for Kelsey (since I already had him in one of my games). Now I need more opinions on a few more Mods.

(1) Expanded Thief Stronghold & Enhanced Bard Stronghold - I seem to have read in one of the ReadMe's that the Expanded Thief Stronghold was part of the Tactics Mod (or maybe it is just similar). I haven't seen any similar info on the Bard Stronghold, but I don't play bards very often so I'm nor overly concerned about that one.

(2) Hells Trials - Changes the trials at the end of SoA to provide different outcomes for Neutral alignments and to actually create penalties or punishment for alignment violations. I saw a note that Hells' Minions was incompatable with the final battle from Tactic - does this problem occure with Hell Trials too, or is it OK?

Thanks again for all of your help and advice. It has been tremendously valuable in helping me decide which Mods to add to my games.