Your proffesional opinion about the weaker classes

[Merlin from Amber]

To make the game more harder I want to know which ones are the weakest classes ?

[LennonCook]

Shapeshifter (Pre rebalancing).
Undead Hunter.
Monk who never levels up.
Mage with 3 in all stats, using no girdle, ring, or cloak.
Sorc who doesn't use any spells.

[ 06-03-2003, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

[Faceman]

The weakest classes IMHO are the "I am actually a ... but want to be a ..." kits. The

Swashbuckler - "I am a thief but can't backstab. Yeah I'm such a tough fighter-badass but I can't wear more than ;eather armor"

Inquisitor - "Yeah undeads fear me more than any other Paladin kit except I can't turn undead like them. I also can't lay on hands but have an infinite supply of detect evil. Yippie!"

Barbarian - "I'm tough but I can't move. I would be easily surpassed by a fighter but I can rage x times a day. *shudder*"

Shapeshifter - "GRRRRRRR! I'm fearsome as a werewolf ... NOT. Luckily I can't wear ANY armor"

Totemic Druid - *looks to a cleric full of envy* "Why can't he wear mail and plate armor? Why can't he use real shields and specialize in weapons? *sob*
Ah well, I'm going to summon one of my pets. Come here Rover ... good dog."

and finally:

BeastMaster: "Stay away from me with your filthy iron and bronze weapons I use my good old baseball bat. And don't tell me it's no use against a Dragon. I am going to give Firkraag a good whackin'"

[Merlin from Amber]

"Monk who never levels up.
Mage with 3 in all stats, using no girdle, ring, or cloak."
----------------------------------------------------------
These are imposiblle.
The game should be broken in order to prevent s.o. playing it from lvl up.
The game does not allow 3 in all stats until some other program is used to do so.
May be I asked my question incorrectly.

What SoA nad ToB kits will make your character as weak as possible ?

[Jim]

Time to disagree ...

Swashbuckler - "I am a thief but can't backstab. Yeah I'm such a tough fighter-badass but I can't wear more than ;eather armor"

Swashbucklers gain substantial hit and damage bonuses, making them a weaker version of the kensai. In terms of damage per round (with the right weapons equipped of course ) they will trump any fighter other than the kensai. The studded leather armour limitations are completely irrelevant since they get great AC bonuses as they level up. By level 40, a swashbuckler will have around +9 ot their AC. This is the class that can attain the highest permament AC.

Inquisitor - "Yeah undeads fear me more than any other Paladin kit except I can't turn undead like them. I also can't lay on hands but have an infinite supply of detect evil. Yippie!"

Do they get infinite detect evil abilities? Didn't know that. The lack of turn undead and lay on hands is made up by having access to true sight (always a useful spell) and, more importantly, a speed factor 1, 2 x level dispel magic ability.

Barbarian - "I'm tough but I can't move. I would be easily surpassed by a fighter but I can rage x times a day. *shudder*"

Why can't the Barbarian move? The Barbarian is actually a very close match for a Berserker, and IMO would trump a straight fighter. He may not be able to achieve mastery, but he gets a speed bonus, immunity to backstab, rage (powerful) and most importantly, physical resistances.

Shapeshifter - "GRRRRRRR! I'm fearsome as a werewolf ... NOT. Luckily I can't wear ANY armor"

They don't need armour . The shapeshifter is actually a very underrated class. The Great Werewolf ability grants an awesome AC bonus, and provided you buff up before you shapechange (iron skins/AoF etc) they make absolute tanks!

Totemic Druid - *looks to a cleric full of envy* "Why can't he wear mail and plate armor? Why can't he use real shields and specialize in weapons? *sob* Ah well, I'm going to summon one of my pets. Come here Rover ... good dog."

Simple, druids have better spells than clerics Druids have access to Scimitars (and therefore have a higher APR rate ) and at higher levels, Druids get powerful shapeshifting abilities and elemental resistances. There's more to a character than AC you know [img]smile.gif[/img] .

BeastMaster: "Stay away from me with your filthy iron and bronze weapons I use my good old baseball bat. And don't tell me it's no use against a Dragon. I am going to give Firkraag a good whackin'"

The Beastmaster has the second highest HP out of all the classes and kits (second only to the Barbarian). There are sufficiently powerful clubs and staves, and powerful armours that only count as studded leather. Staff of Rhynn +4 and Shadow Dragon scale makes SoA a breeze, and once you get into ToB and wield the Staff of the Ram +6 and the White Dragon Scale, things get even easier. Then, to top it off, they will eventually have 3 castings of a level 6 summoning spell. Having up to 5 powerful bears/lions at your disposal makes tougher fights much easier over a standard Ranger.

What's my point you ask? Well, I think all classes can potentially be very powerful if played correctly, it simply depends of your playing style. For every class that someone says is the weakest, I can think of multiple advantages that balance out the disadvantages. The classes/kits are well balanced in this game, and I don't think any one class can be crowned the weakest.

[Raistlin Majere]

Straight Figther, maybe? try soloing one...not easy. lets try a few examples:

Fighter vs. thief=thief using potions/rings of invisibility and backstab

Fighter vs. mage=dead fighter [img]smile.gif[/img]

Fighter vs. barbarian=barbarian killing fighter due to physical resistance & HIGH hp and strenght(DUHM+Rage), dex, con

i dont think i need to go any further, any spellcaster can pretty much kill the fighter, pladins can kill a fighter due to Carsomyr(dispelling any potion buffs, i believe) and thiefs have backstab(excluding the swashbuckler, whom is a better fighter than the straight fighter at high levels). thats just my opinion though.

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Merlin from Amber: "Monk who never levels up. Mage with 3 in all stats, using no girdle, ring, or cloak." ---------------------------------------------------------- These are imposiblle. The game should be broken in order to prevent s.o. playing it from lvl up. The game does not allow 3 in all stats until some other program is used to do so. May be I asked my question incorrectly. What SoA nad ToB kits will make your character as weak as possible ?

It's possible never to level up, just don't you the "level up" button, and what he probably meant was create a sorcerer with minimum possible stats in everything.

[Merlin from Amber]

You are correct Luvian - I missed that.
Faceman I must disagree with you about the inquisitors. I developed one. This is not weak class - he was wizards' (NPC only) nightmare.

By the way sorry for the syntax errors.

[Indemaijinj]

BG2 is not so unbalanced that some of the kits are completely redundant. There are, however some of the kits that are a bit weaker.


Ranger - Beastmaster. Quite playable as you can find a few good leather armors around (most notably a certain set of dragon scale). It's special perk (woot - My summoning spells are at lower levels, but I still have to use my precious few slots on them) is a bit weak when compared to it's drawback.

Druid - Avenger. The concept is cool enough. A kind of "artillery druid" so to speak. Also the new shapeshift forms are actually somewhat useful. Still the few mage spells that it gets access to only make it's spell selection a tiny bit better than that of an ordinary druid. This has to be compared to it's significant drawbacks.

Mage - Diviner. Who in their right mind would ever choose a diviner in this game? Firstly, the divination school spell list in this game is extremely lackluster. Sure Identify is a cool general purpouse spell and Detect Invisible and True Sight is two awesome spell protection strippers, but besides these three there is really nothing else of value. ..And then you have to put 16 points in wisdom and lose access to all conjuration spells. Happy days!


I don't know why you speak out against the totemmic druid Faceman? I personally find it stronger than a regular druid. Losing access to the shapeshift forms isn't that big a drawback since the shapeshift forms are not really that useful in the mid-high level setting of BG2. Instead you get an innate ability summon that is decent at high level and cleans house at mid level.

[ 06-03-2003, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Indemaijinj ]

[slicer15]

Originally posted by Raistlin Majere: Straight Figther, maybe? try soloing one...not easy. lets try a few examples: Fighter vs. mage=dead fighter [img]smile.gif[/img]

Not necessarily. I once had a straight human fighter as my PC (don't know what came over me) but he was powerful. Granted, I didn't solo him, but he could still beat a wizard by himself. With the right resistance potions and armour, a fighter can cream a wizard. It all depends on how you fight and the situation of the battle. Sure, a mage can defeat a fighter, but vice versa is just as feasible.