Burning Hands

Butterfingers · 03-11-2003, 10:58 AM

Ok. I am here to throw down the guantlet.

It has been noted that burning hands is a rather sucky spell. In a certain somebody's spell guide, I won't mention any names,

it is listed as a skip.

After much use and testing, I am here to challenge that judgement.

People worry about their mages getting to close in battle. Hogwash. Invalid point. With Stoneskins, Mirror Image, and various protections to all sorts of things, this makes this a moot point.

Not enough damage. Yet more hogwash. Burning hands does upwards of 20 damage, double damage on a failed save. It does indeed do double damage to undead. Well, certain types of undead. There seems to be something buggy about the undead in this game. Now, being able to get up to 40 or so points of raw damage is pretty darn good. In my book. Sure beats the snot out of Magic Missle. As fas as undead go, I have seen damage in in the 60's range. Makes it mighty handy for toasting mummies and the like. Can you say "BBQ"?

The save issue. Simi valid point. However, most folks open fights (Or at least I hope they do) with Greater Malison.

Potential cheesy abuse. Burning Hands seems to totally ignore Mirror Imaged foes. I can't quite prove this yet, but, in two games, one with my Transmuter, the other with a Cleric/Mage, I have noticed on many occasions that Mirror Imaged mages always got toasted when I sent a searing hot jet of flame in their direction.

Over all, the spell functions well and does a lot more damage then one would expect from a level 1 spell. It is good against trolls, naturally, and, allows a mage to get the upper hand on undead as well. It is quick to cast and can be useful to disrupt spell casting, even on a failed save it puts an end to annoying enemy mages trying to roast you. It bites right through Stoneskins and most other protections, as well as Mirror Images as I have mentioned.

Conclusion? I would like the verdict re-examined and hopefully changed. This is a very worthwhile spell over all.

jamalez · 03-11-2003, 11:24 AM

yea, im with you. burning hands is also pretty good against trolls (dont know the stats though).

Dundee Slaytern · 03-11-2003, 11:38 AM

You appear to have (yet) another (apparently) MAC-Only bug. The maximum damage that the spell is supposed to deal is 1d3 + 20 damage. Your comments about the failed save is also slightly flawed.

The damage does not double when the target fails its' save. It gets reduced by half when the target passes its' save. Meaning... 1d3 + 20 divided by 2, which is quite pitiful.

There is no mention of Undead damage bonuses, but the Undead do have poor fire resistance, so in a sense, they do suffer more from fire damage.

Butterfingers · 03-11-2003, 11:59 AM

Well, in watching the text box where it gives the numbers for all the action, when a save is made the damage is listed only once. So and so does 17 damage to so and so. When the save is failed, it's So and so does 17 damage to so and so. Only twice. Listing the damage twice. Perhaps a screenie is in order.

Anyhow, slightly off topic, I notice that some undead in this game are highly buggy. Azuredge for example, fails to work on them. Some undead can't seemed to be turned. Some undead are just plain weird. Even the IMoD fails to do them in.

Dundee Slaytern · 03-11-2003, 12:06 PM

The damage from spells are often not in one lump. Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting works in the same way. The damage is split into two parts, making it easier for the computer to calculate the damage dealt to the target.

The damage is not doubled, they just subtracted one lump when the target passes its' save.

Without patching your game, Azuredge will not work properly. I am not sure whether Baldurdash is MAC-Friendly though. As for weird Undead, you need to be more specific. Which Undead in particular, did you find unusual?

Sir Goulum · 03-11-2003, 05:37 PM

I personally like Chormatic Orb better [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Shadowbane · 03-11-2003, 05:56 PM

I have Magic Missile! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

605 · 03-11-2003, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern:
The damage from spells are often not in one lump. Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting works in the same way. The damage is split into two parts, making it easier for the computer to calculate the damage dealt to the target.

Make it easier on the computer? I'm not sure if that's an extremely dry humored joke or not. I mean, computers can add like... at LEAST twice as fast as me... maybe 2.5x but, I don't wanna give 'em TOO much credit.

Seriously tho, why is the damage spilt like that? Making it easier on the computer just doesn't seem believable to me.

Dundee Slaytern · 03-11-2003, 11:41 PM

Frees up processing time perhaps? *shrug* It is easier to subtract than to divide. The only people who can fully address the issue though, are the game developers, or to be more specific, those who designed the Infinity Engine.

It also prevents the issue of non-whole numbers.

Most save or else spells follow this system though.

karlosovic · 03-12-2003, 07:34 AM

i think its more just another case of BF's "nothing is useless" attitude. everytime someone says "this spell is crap" or "dont use that sword !!" butterfingers manages to prove to us that, in fact, its just a matter of using it right. like transmuters [img]tongue.gif[/img]

03-11-2003, 11:24 AM	#2
jamalez The Magister Join Date: February 15, 2003 Location: Texas Age: 37 Posts: 128	yea, im with you. burning hands is also pretty good against trolls (dont know the stats though). __________________ gruntrush3halls warcraft II will win

03-12-2003, 07:34 AM	#10
karlosovic Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: December 1, 2002 Location: Newcastle, Australia Age: 47 Posts: 636	i think its more just another case of BF's "nothing is useless" attitude. everytime someone says "this spell is crap" or "dont use that sword !!" butterfingers manages to prove to us that, in fact, its just a matter of using it right. like transmuters [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Sunglasses of Coolness +2<br /><br />Cernd: \"It is with great pride and pleasure that I accept this Most Valuable Player award....\"<br />(from the genius of Six of Spades)

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03-11-2003, 10:58 AM	#1
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	Ok. I am here to throw down the guantlet. It has been noted that burning hands is a rather sucky spell. In a certain somebody's spell guide, I won't mention any names, it is listed as a skip. After much use and testing, I am here to challenge that judgement. People worry about their mages getting to close in battle. Hogwash. Invalid point. With Stoneskins, Mirror Image, and various protections to all sorts of things, this makes this a moot point. Not enough damage. Yet more hogwash. Burning hands does upwards of 20 damage, double damage on a failed save. It does indeed do double damage to undead. Well, certain types of undead. There seems to be something buggy about the undead in this game. Now, being able to get up to 40 or so points of raw damage is pretty darn good. In my book. Sure beats the snot out of Magic Missle. As fas as undead go, I have seen damage in in the 60's range. Makes it mighty handy for toasting mummies and the like. Can you say "BBQ"? The save issue. Simi valid point. However, most folks open fights (Or at least I hope they do) with Greater Malison. Potential cheesy abuse. Burning Hands seems to totally ignore Mirror Imaged foes. I can't quite prove this yet, but, in two games, one with my Transmuter, the other with a Cleric/Mage, I have noticed on many occasions that Mirror Imaged mages always got toasted when I sent a searing hot jet of flame in their direction. Over all, the spell functions well and does a lot more damage then one would expect from a level 1 spell. It is good against trolls, naturally, and, allows a mage to get the upper hand on undead as well. It is quick to cast and can be useful to disrupt spell casting, even on a failed save it puts an end to annoying enemy mages trying to roast you. It bites right through Stoneskins and most other protections, as well as Mirror Images as I have mentioned. Conclusion? I would like the verdict re-examined and hopefully changed. This is a very worthwhile spell over all.

03-11-2003, 11:38 AM	#3
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	You appear to have (yet) another (apparently) MAC-Only bug. The maximum damage that the spell is supposed to deal is 1d3 + 20 damage. Your comments about the failed save is also slightly flawed. The damage does not double when the target fails its' save. It gets reduced by half when the target passes its' save. Meaning... 1d3 + 20 divided by 2, which is quite pitiful. There is no mention of Undead damage bonuses, but the Undead do have poor fire resistance, so in a sense, they do suffer more from fire damage.

03-11-2003, 11:59 AM	#4
Butterfingers Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: November 30, 2002 Location: Five Flagons Inn Posts: 633	Well, in watching the text box where it gives the numbers for all the action, when a save is made the damage is listed only once. So and so does 17 damage to so and so. When the save is failed, it's So and so does 17 damage to so and so. Only twice. Listing the damage twice. Perhaps a screenie is in order. Anyhow, slightly off topic, I notice that some undead in this game are highly buggy. Azuredge for example, fails to work on them. Some undead can't seemed to be turned. Some undead are just plain weird. Even the IMoD fails to do them in.

03-11-2003, 12:06 PM	#5
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	The damage from spells are often not in one lump. Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting works in the same way. The damage is split into two parts, making it easier for the computer to calculate the damage dealt to the target. The damage is not doubled, they just subtracted one lump when the target passes its' save. Without patching your game, Azuredge will not work properly. I am not sure whether Baldurdash is MAC-Friendly though. As for weird Undead, you need to be more specific. Which Undead in particular, did you find unusual?

03-11-2003, 05:37 PM	#6
Sir Goulum John Locke Join Date: February 7, 2002 Location: Edmonton, Canada Age: 36 Posts: 8,985	I personally like Chormatic Orb better [img]tongue.gif[/img]

03-11-2003, 05:56 PM	#7
Shadowbane Dungeon Master Join Date: February 10, 2003 Location: Canada Age: 49 Posts: 57	I have Magic Missile! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

03-11-2003, 11:41 PM	#9
Dundee Slaytern Ironworks Moderator Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore Age: 42 Posts: 11,063	Frees up processing time perhaps? shrug It is easier to subtract than to divide. The only people who can fully address the issue though, are the game developers, or to be more specific, those who designed the Infinity Engine. It also prevents the issue of non-whole numbers. Most save or else spells follow this system though.

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