SORCEROS VS WIZARDS

[Sythe]

Hailo a couple weeks ago there was a topic similar to this. I have been looking for it but can't find it. So I decided to start it up again. Now before I say something about how superior mages are to their lowly small minded sorcerors I need to know this. When mages gain a level do they learn a spell from their school without using scrolls? This time I am going to prove that mages are DA [img]graemlins/rocking2.gif[/img] BOMB [img]graemlins/rocking2.gif[/img]

Oh I forgot to mention I say this to all Sorcerors [img]graemlins/bart.gif[/img]

Joking of course can't wait! Hope they don't bring in their heavy attilery (That means you Dundee!)

[Rataxes]

This wouldn't be the particular thread you were looking for, would it? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mages do not learn any new spells when gaining a level. The only ones they can learn without reading a scroll are the ones you get to choose upon creation.

[Sythe]

Thanks Rataxes now I can get all the quotes from Dundee bwahaha.

Just something to think about... my Sorcerer can cast Time Stop in Chapter 3... can your Mage do so? Think carefully...

No a mage can't do so but how can a sorceror! Unless you imported that high level a sorceror from another saved game. Not all fresh level uh 8-13 Sorceror! Or you simpliy got a whole lotta XP.

If you want to talk about low-level... at level one, a Sorcerer can blasts a level one spell 3 times a day... a Mage can only cast once... or twice if he is a Specialist.

Yes Dundee you are right oh so ri hITE! But you know what Mages with a very high intellgence can scribe scrolls. Obviously there are many scrolls in the game so you can learn em level up much faster heck if you are soloing and learn a level 9 spell (9000 XP) heck you would level up 2 or 3 timeS! And lets look down at your sorceror for a minute.

While the Mage has to scurry all over Amn to get the best scrolls, a Sorcerer merely has to clap his hands when he/she levels up and say, "Hey! I think I want Mordenkainen's Sword now."

Clap his hands!!!??? Cmon! You are right mages have to scurry around to get some of the best scrolls but a wise and smart mage would not always hunt for just the best and ignore the rest . A mage can easily get a low level scroll right right. He can just erase some of the spells from his memory (if you have TOB installed) and rememorize those low level spells heck if they were unlimited scrolls in the game the mage can have a unlimited amount of XP! And to stack that off a mage gets more XP when fighting of eninimies AND to stack it one more time is when the mage who knows a larger variety of spells can take down bigger and more powerful enimies.

A Mage depends on his/her scrolls, a Sorcerer merely has to level up.

Okay I have to agree with you on this one Dundee. Mages do depend a lot of scrolls. Sorcerors do level and get some itsy bitsy spells! So WHAT!! Leveling up takes 4ever dude. Now same thing is with the mage. I know by the great heroric stories that you are a BG2 Veteran. You must know that every dungeon you cross there has to be at least 3 scrolls. Now a sorceror can pick them up and use them later. But mages on the other hand boy they can just pick them up and learn them and use the spells as many times as they want.

Ey tell me if I went a little overboard they aye!

[Deathmage]

Sorcerers! I haven't used mages ever since I discovered the true powers of Sorcerers!!!!

Mages have to buy/find scrolls (which are sometimes rather expensive) when a Sorcerer merely has to level up by doing a couple of quests. Sorcerers gets more spells per day then mages. Sorcerers can use more advanced tactics then mages.

Eg:

Bob the mage has nothing but Mirror Image in his Level 2 Spellbook. One day he encounters a troll, and then he casts Mirror Image for protection. After Minsc knocked it to the grounds he was shocked to find that he could not kill the troll, who instantly jumped up and ripped Bob and Minsc into tiny little pieces.

Jim the Sorcerer is level 13 and has a couple spells in his level 2 spellbook. He encounters the same troll, and he casts Mirror Image, then gets Minsc to beat the troll up. Unlike Bob he chuckled when the troll fell and launched an Acid Arrow which killed the troll and gave him & Minsc a level up. Hurrah!

[Butterfingers]

In a CRPG, the Sorcerer holds a bit of an edge. As I have mentioned before, in PnP, spell selection for a sorcerer might be school based or randomly selected by a DM. Spells would most likely be based on parentage.

In the above mentioned scenario, involving a troll, in PnP, that might play out a bit different. What if your sorcerer could not have Melf's Acid Arrows? What if they were an enchantment based being? Or Illusion based? Or, Melf's Acid Arrows was not a spell selected for you by the DM? A sorcerer has innate spells. Meaning they are already there. Meaning he or she has no choice in selection really, they already exist within you, meaning you are stuck with what you have. CRPGs are broken in this aspect, allowing the player to make a choice over his or her spells. A sorcerer has no idea what sort of power lurks inside. In all honesty, when a sorcerer levels up, his spell selection should be made by the computer and be totally random. Afraid of getting spells that might suck? In PnP, that's part of the fun of playing a sorcerer. Learning to work with what you have and finding new ways to make it effective somehow. Of course, within the power gamer circle, most folks would soon be shouting the sorcerer sucks, and, the mage would become king. But there would be a few who would relish the challenge of trying a solo sorcerer when the rules are actually followed and all spell selection was based on a lucky roll of the dice. Your Sorcerer might not have Magic Missle, or, even Chromatic Orb. Infact, based on how the rules should be applied, in the first level of spells, your sorcerer might get unlucky and get no offensive spells at all. Or they might get stuck with spells like Burning Hands and Grease as their only offensive spells. Thus bringing out the fun factor.

But as it is, the game is broken, and, the sorcerer can be custom tailored to become a living nuclear weapon. If the game was fixed however, how many people would still love the sorcerer?

[Bardan the Slayer]

Sorcerers are the best, and it boils down to one very simple reason - when the wizard is in a battle and he only has a few spells left, what does he do?

The mage is stuck - he has the spells he has memorized. if he can't use them - tough!

The Sorc? He can cast whatever he wants.

In a tight spot, the mage casts what he can and hopes it works. The Sorc casts what he needs, and lives. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[SilverBear]

Give it a rest....In BGII and TOB Sorcers win hands down

I just finished a game using the Tasha mod. By the end of chapter three she had time stop and by the time we exited the Underdark she was just shy of being a deity.

In the future I will be hard pressed to think of ANY reason to take Aeire into my party.

My next game…solo sorcerer.

[ 01-13-2003, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: SilverBear ]

[Sythe]

[quote]Bob the mage has nothing but Mirror Image in his Level 2 Spellbook. One day he encounters a troll, and then he casts Mirror Image for protection. After Minsc knocked it to the grounds he was shocked to find that he could not kill the troll, who instantly jumped up and ripped Bob and Minsc into tiny little pieces.

Jim the Sorcerer is level 13 and has a couple spells in his level 2 spellbook. He encounters the same troll, and he casts Mirror Image, then gets Minsc to beat the troll up. Unlike Bob he chuckled when the troll fell and launched an Acid Arrow which killed the troll and gave him & Minsc a level up. Hurrah![\QUOTE]

Excuse but wouldn't your average smart mage learn more level two spells. Any type of mage is smart enough to get all the spells (she can. Not having enough spells in any level is completley stupid I mean it! Dude you are making us mages look stupid!! Next Quote

The mage is stuck - he has the spells he has memorized. if he can't use them - tough! The Sorc? He can cast whatever he wants. In a tight spot, the mage casts what he can and hopes it works. The Sorc casts what he needs, and lives.

Dude I think you have it the other way around. The mage can cast whatever he wants and a sorceror is stuck with only a small handfull of spells. And what in the 9 hells you mean if he has spells memorized he can't use them? In a tight spot a mage casts what he cans and hope it works!!! DUDE what planet are you from! The last sentance oh my goodness. Dude everything you say is messed up reverse that and you got that right!

[Deathmage]

Originally posted by Butterfingers: In a CRPG, the Sorcerer holds a bit of an edge. As I have mentioned before, in PnP, spell selection for a sorcerer might be school based or randomly selected by a DM. Spells would most likely be based on parentage. In the above mentioned scenario, involving a troll, in PnP, that might play out a bit different. What if your sorcerer could not have Melf's Acid Arrows? What if they were an enchantment based being? Or Illusion based? Or, Melf's Acid Arrows was not a spell selected for you by the DM? A sorcerer has innate spells. Meaning they are already there. Meaning he or she has no choice in selection really, they already exist within you, meaning you are stuck with what you have. CRPGs are broken in this aspect, allowing the player to make a choice over his or her spells. A sorcerer has no idea what sort of power lurks inside. In all honesty, when a sorcerer levels up, his spell selection should be made by the computer and be totally random. Afraid of getting spells that might suck? In PnP, that's part of the fun of playing a sorcerer. Learning to work with what you have and finding new ways to make it effective somehow. Of course, within the power gamer circle, most folks would soon be shouting the sorcerer sucks, and, the mage would become king. But there would be a few who would relish the challenge of trying a solo sorcerer when the rules are actually followed and all spell selection was based on a lucky roll of the dice. Your Sorcerer might not have Magic Missle, or, even Chromatic Orb. Infact, based on how the rules should be applied, in the first level of spells, your sorcerer might get unlucky and get no offensive spells at all. Or they might get stuck with spells like Burning Hands and Grease as their only offensive spells. Thus bringing out the fun factor. But as it is, the game is broken, and, the sorcerer can be custom tailored to become a living nuclear weapon. If the game was fixed however, how many people would still love the sorcerer?

Hmm. That sounds like fun...

[Dundee Slaytern]

I sense misunderstanding and a need for clarification.

You ask how can a Sorcerer cast Time Stop in Chapter 3. Let it be known that a solo Sorcerer can easily enter Chapter 4 at level 25+. Solo Sorcerers gain XP like nobody's business, because people die, lots of people die.

A Mage loses out in this aspect, and suffers the IWD-HoF syndrome. All the spell slots in the world, and not enough good spells to fill them up. You will be hard pressed to have a good and varied selection in your level 7-9 spells before entering Chapter 6.

Sorcerers can meet Dragons, Liches, Mind Flayers, Golems, etc... and use Time Stop + PRATI to rain Hellfire and Brimstone upon their unsuspecting heads. Men will die, wives will weep and children shall huddle under their beds when a Sorcerer really gets going in the game.

A Mage can emulate the Sorcerer to a certain extent, but where a Mage is a Nuclear Bomb, a Sorcerer is a Hydrogen Bomb.

A Sorcerer is more versatile in the heat of the battle. Understand this, if your Mage only memorised one Stoneskin, you only get one Stoneskin during the battle. A Sorcerer can still have a second, then a third, maybe even a fourth for a lark.

Trying to argue that a Mage is more versatile than a Sorcerer during a battle is futile, because it is simply not true. A simple test to demostrate this is to ask yourself, how many Mordenkainen Swords can either Mage or Sorcerer cast without the aid of Spell Trap, Wish or Resting?

The answer will be rather disappointing to Mage users.