HELP....can't decide on what class to start with

[Vohnkar]

well i finally picked up this game and it seems great. my problem though is that i can't pick a class to start out with. I get to the end of the first dungeon and start over with another class. Currently i am trying the fighter/druid and that seems fun, but i don't know if it will be fun in the long run.
my question is this:
what classes have you played and what are the advantages and disadvantages of each?
kind of a big question, but maybe someone can talk me into a class that they liked, and then i can get into the game.

[Lord Starshadow]

Hi Vohnkar. Welcome to the forum!

Anyway, I just got BG2 over the summer, and I'm in the middle of going through it my first. Like you, I tried a couple of charcters in the first dungeon before settling on a Swashbuckler. I'm really enjoying it. I'm a pretty big fan of thieves, but I also wanted someone that could do some fighting as well, and the Swashbuckler has been all that I wanted. He gets some nice combat bonuses: +1 to hit and damage every 5 levels, -1 to AC (awesome thing!) every 5 levels, gets the ability to put 3 slots in dual wielding, can put 2 slots in any melee weapon a thief can use, and keeps the full amount of thief skill points. The only thing he doesn't do is backstab, but I hadn't gotten the hang of that yet, so that doesn't bother me, and no magic spells. I'm having a good time with this character; he's a great scout and good in battle.

[antryg]

Each class had its own strengths and weaknesses. A lot will actually depend on your own personality. Some people love the magic track, mages and the like. The ability to use different spells can be a lot of fun. Others like thieves because of the backstab and trap abilities. It is also great to pickpocket NPC's that annoy you. Paladins are my personal favorite. For one thing I just have more funplaying good characters. Paladins also are the only ones that get to use a particullarly cool sword. I've never played a druid or ranger past chapter 2 so I can't really speak to their appeal. Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

[Arquendil Lorigollo]

I recently got this game myself, too, and I can say with absolute certainty that there is no particular class you should be. Every class is fun, but should be tested beyond the first dungeon a ways. For example: I liked my Necromancer for a while until he started fighting people with magic resistance, so i tried someone else. I've begun to settle on two classes in particular: Cleric and Blade. My Priest of Lathander cleric has been very enjoyable, you get to help people with their problems and destroy evil. My Blade has been fun because after you get a special piece of armor, he can cast his mage spells and use his 3 slotted two weapon style katana Offensive Spin attacks and is able to identify many items without spells and pick pockets (not quite as good as a Kensai/Mage dual class, but still a lot of fun).
But in any case, your class is up to you, pick what you enjoy the most.
(Another recommendation would be an Archer with grand mastery of the short bow with high DEX and a proficiency with the longsword)

[Kaltia]

My favourites: Sorcerer
Plain ranger
Archer
Cavelier
Fighter/Mage/thief (once you get the ball rolling....they're near invincible )
it depends as well on how much you know about BG-I remember making my first character in the original BG and not knowing about what stats; i have still got my fighter and her stats are:
Str:12
Dex:18
Con:18
Int:12
Wis:14
Char:16

[McHaggis]

Bard is good, in my opinion. I'm just playing with a bard and it is pretty good class since you get access to some mage spells (although limited, but still). And high lore saves a lot of money. And cavalier is good also, I went through SoA and ToB with cavalier.

SPOILER
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If bard, remember to pickpocket Ring of Regeneration from Ribald (the guy in the Adventure's Mart). [img]graemlins/showoff.gif[/img]

[ 10-27-2002, 05:03 AM: Message edited by: McHaggis ]

[Indemaijinj]

Well, there is only one class that I would not recommend to a newbie and that is the monk. They are weak in the start, but totally overpowered in the late game. Not good for the learning curve.

Here are my consideratíons on the classes:

The warrior group:

The warrior group is made up by the fighter, the ranger, the paladin and the barbarian (and to some extent also the monk, but that class is kinda weird).
Warriors are good at whacking people with weapons and enduring being whacked themselves. Thus they will usually be the ones to stand at the front line dealing blows though they can also be good ranged fighters peppering the enemy with arrows (the NPC Mazzy Fentan is a prime example of this).
Warriors can put two proficiency "dots" in a weapon getting extra skill with it.
Warriors gets many attacks per round and they can reap the benefits of a constitution above 16. If their strength is 18 they will also get a seperate stat indicating some kind of bonus. If this stat is high (or 00) this will greatly increase your fighting ability.
Playing a warrior much of the game will revolve around "upgrading your hardware" getting better weapons, armor and various magical accessories.

Strength is of great importance to warriors since it decides your melee skills and damage. It is slightly less important for "archer" types. Strength will also decide how much loot you can carry around on you which is also important for fighters.
Dexterity is of great importance because it decides your base armor class.
Constitution is important because it will give you extra hit points.
While intelligence isn't of any importance to fighters it is good to have it at at least 10 (can read and write) since you will not be able to use some items (such as resistance scrolls) otherwise.
Wisdom is of no real importance.
Charisma has some influence of who strikes first in a round of combat and also decides how much items are gonna cost you in the game. But since you can get a ring that boosts your charisma to 18 very early in the game people tend to prioritise charisma lowest.

Fighter.
You can't go wrong with a fighter. Besides the usual warrior perks they have the specific ability to put five proficiency "dots" into a single weapon thus becoming really fearsome with it.
When creating your fighter you need to make some decisions on what weapons you want to use since you will be using many "dots" on few weapons to reap the benefits of being a fighter. You will probably also want to know whether you are a single wielding, sword and shield, two handed weapon, or dual wielding person.
Fighters can use all kinds of weapons with equal skill.
One of the prime weaknesses with fighters is that besides their fighting skills and toughness they have little else in terms of abilities. They are at the mercy of spells, traps and various special abilities. They do make up for this somewhat by having good saves and many hitpoint, but sometimes this isn't enough when spells are flying. Therefore you will need to stock up on items that grant resistances and immunities against a wide range of hazards.

Berserker (fighter kit).
What seperates a berserker from a normal fighter is their ability to berserk. In this enraged state they will be able fight better, but most importantly they get some of what the fighter otherwise really lacks: Immunity! They will be immune to all mind-affecting magic (this is really cool) and level-drain (a life saver) and even the mighty spell Imprisonment!
Given their abilities survive all kinds of assaults and their inability to get any skill with ranged weapons their role will almost always be to stand at the front lines recieving blows while laughing away at their lack of effect.

Kensai (fighter kit).
This kit is weird. This is basically a fighter who have sacrificed his ability to use any kind of armor (not even bracers or helmets) in order to get exceptional skills with his melee weapon. Due to some strange effect (jokingly called "bulletproof nudity") the kensai still get some semblance of armor due to his ability to dodge blows more freely or something other.
A kensai is able to dish out extreme amounts of punishment with his weapons, especially when using his Kai Shot but is very fragile due to his lack of armor. A kensai often needs some other warrior to take the blows while the kensai stands right behind and lands them.
Since this is one of the few ways to get a cool armor class for a kensai Dexterity is even more important than with a regular fighter.
Kensais are most often dualed to mages.

Wizard Slayer (fighter kit).
Wizard slayers have sacrificed the ability to use any magical items besides armor, weapons, shields and such. Instead they have got special skills in fighting spellcasters, being especially good at breaking their concentration and such. A wizard slayer is a bad class to start with for a newbie since they are unable to use the often life-saving healing potions.

Ranger.
A ranger is a warrior with a special link to nature and some druidic training. Besides the usual fighter abilities they can do a bit of druidic (a variant of clerical) spellcasting and has special powers over animals. Rangers also start with two "dots" in dual-wielding for some reason or other. Rangers are also good at hiding themselves, but cannot do so if wearing metal armor.
In most ways playing a ranger will be similar to playing any other warriors.
Rangers must be good of alignment and they lose all of their special abilites irrevocably if your reputation goes too low.
Rangers can benefit from high wisdom due to their spellcasting abilites.

Beast Master (ranger kit).
These rangers are even more attuned to nature. They flatly refuse to use any armor or weapons made of metal and is thus hindered to only wearing leathers and hides and wielding clubs, staves and bows. Be warned! Finding decent warrior equipment for a beast master can be a considerable pain in the nether regions.
Beast masters gain the abilities to cast a lot of summoning spells, who would otherwise be to high-level for them. This is rather nifty, but their only real advantage.
They can also get familiars.

Stalker (ranger kit).
This kit emphasizes the sneaky part of the ranger augmenting it with the thief ability to perform backstabs for extra damage. Stalkers also gain the ability to cast some wizard spells, mostly dealing with dispelling things.
Stalkers are a strange all-round kit who combine the warrior virtues with those of a thief and a mage.
Due to their sneaky nature they are only able to use the armors that thieves use (leather and such). This makes them a less front-line worthy class, though they should be able to stand some punishment now and then.
Due to their lack of heavy armor and their thieving skills dexterity is of prime importance to them.

Archer (ranger kit).
This ranger excel in the use of bows. You need just take along the NPC Mazzy Fentan to realize that this is a rather powerful specialization (note Mazzy isn't a ranger archer). Archers can put five "dots" in all kinds of bows even though they aren't fighters.
Since using missile weapons make you much easier to hit in melee archers are not front liners. They should stick in the back and rain death at enemies instead. This also makes their inability to use plate mails less a drawback. If you really need them up front, however, you can easily shift out their bow for a melee weapon and count on them doing some damage. They are warriors after all.
Since they are using ranged weapons all the time Dexterity is the most important ability for them.

Paladin.
Paladins are lawful good stalwart defenders of all that is right and true. They add some priestly abilities (spells, turn undead) as well as some extra healing abilites to the standard warrior abilities. They are even better at resisting bad effects due to their higher saving throws.
Paladins need high wisdom and very high charisma for some reason.
Paladins are good basic front-liners but you will need to take the "good" path through your adventure (this is not that big a drawback, since the "good" path is usually also the best path to take tactics-wise).
Paladins can use the most powerful weapon in the game (a two-handed sword).

Cavalier (paladin kit).
A cavalier is a really good kit for starters. They are warriors who get special bonuses against some of the most badass monsters in the game: Fiends and dragons.
Their true power lies in their resistances, however. They are immune to fear and poison and can cure other party members for these effects too. They are also resistant to fire and acid. A good solid choice for a front line warrior.
They are unable to use missile weapons, but if you stick them up front this will not hurt that much.

Undead Hunter (paladin kit).
An undead hunter specializes in combating undead. Again their real strength lies in their immunities. They are immune to hold and level-drain effects, both of which are very dangerous.
They are unable to heal people by "laying on hands". But if you have cleric or druid along for healing this is not much of a disability.

Inquisitor (paladin kit).
Inquisitors specialize in dealing with evil spellcasters. They lack the clerical abilities of other paladins and have no healing abilities whatsoever.
Their immunities are again their strength. They are immune to charm and hold. Their special abilites are, however also good. They are able to use dispel magic and true seeing. Two really neat spells for ridding the area from hostile spells. An inquisitor can do a great job at putting the hose on enemy spellcasters.

Barbarian.
Barbarians are a weird kind of warriors, but easy to play. They have the ability to enter a rage, though it is not as powerful as the berserker rage (it hurts armor class and doesn't protect against Imprisonment). The rage still protects against all mind affecting effects and level drain so it is still awesome. Barbarians are a bit sturdier than your average fighter since they have the largest hit die in the game (12 sided) and gains resistance to physical damage, you head me right: Physical damage! They are also faster than your average character allowing them to get quicker to a hot spot. They have a little disadvantage in the fact that they can't use plate mails. Still they make excellent front-liners.

To sum up the warrior classes:

Fighters: Good at hitting and hurting people.

Rangers: If you want some extra flavour on your warrior.

Paladins: Good for immunities and healing/protection spells.

Barbarians: Good for suffering extreme amounts of damage and still look good.

[Indemaijinj]

To moderators: I'm splitting this up in seperate posts for ease of reading. Hope you don't mind.

The Rogue group:

The rogues are classes who combines sneakiness and the ability to interact with the environment with some decent fighting abilities. They are a lot more fragile than warriors so one should be wary to stick them in damage's way for too long period. Still their special abilites are extremely useful and hard to imitate by others.
Thieves are often given ranged weapons and used as archers when only brute violence is called for.
The rogue group is made up by the thief class. It does also include the bard, but he fits better among the arcane spellcasters so I will discuss him there.

Thief.
The thief's has a set of abilites called thieving abilities to which he can allocate points. The abilites should be viewed as percentages, though various circumstances might exact penalties on then warranting higher-than-100 scores.
The skills are:

Lockpicking: This allows you to open most (but not all) locked doors, chests and drawers even while not having the key. Various locks might require various levels of lockpicking skill. If you want to be certain that you can open most locks you'd better get this one up near 100. Locks can also be opened by a wizard spell (Knock), and appliance of large amounts of brute force.

Pickpocketing: This allows you to steal items from passersby. If it doesn't work the target will go hostile with ensuing ramifications. If you want to be sure that you succeed you'd better get this above 100. This is one of the few abilities that thieves and bards share.

Find/Remove Traps: This extremely useful and hard to do without skill allows you to remove harmful traps from existence. When sprung traps can cause all matter of adverse effects ranging from simple damage, poison to various spells including powerful insta-kill ones. If your main character doesn't posess this skill to an adequate degree you'll better get an NPC that does.

Stealth (move silently and hide in shadows): If successful this skill will allow you to creep unseen about, not risking attack from your enemies. This is also what makes thieves' special fightning style; backstabbing, possible.

Dispel Illusions: This esoteric spell allows you to dispel illusions in much the same way that clerics turn undead. The thief dispels illusions while seaching after traps. There are many spells who also does this.

One of the special abilities of rogues is the ability to backstab, though the stalker ranger also possesses this skill. With backstabbing a thief is able to do extreme amounts of damage with one hit, sometimes enough to make powerful opponents drop with but one hit. To be able to backstab a thief must be unseen (either through use of stealth or magical invisibility) and he must strike while still being hidden. Backstabbing requires a lot of fine controlling of your thief, but yields much satisfaction when it works.
The biggest disadvantage of thieves are that they are somewhat fragile. They don't have a lot of hit points and they can only wear leather and similar armor. They don't have the magical abilities of clerics and wizards to bolster their defences with spells. The only real defensive ability they have is their ability to vanish from view.
Thieves are due to their trade also good at identifying items by examining them. They get lore values similar to mages.
Strength is important for a thief as it allows him to do more damage with his melee weapons. This is also important for a thief, remember backstabbing. It also allows the thief to tote around more stolen loot.
Dexterity is the most important of all abilites to thieves. Not only do all their special abilites rely on it. It also reduces their fragility by boosting their armor class.
Constitution has some importance because it boosts the thief's otherwise low hit points but thieves does not gain any bonus from constitution above 16.
Intelligence adds to the thief's lore value making him better to identify items.
Wisdom has litte importance for a thief.
Charisma is important for a thief because it makes people strike faster in combat (really important for a backstabber) and reduces prices in shops. Because an item that increases charisma to 18 is available early on this ability is often not prioritised very highly.

Swashbuckler (thief kit):
A swashbuckler is a thief that never really cared about backstabbing and has chosen to practice swordplay instead. Due to melee bonuses they are often as good as any warrior in close combat. Still they lack the toughness of a true warrior. They can put three "dots" in dual wielding and frequently carry two weapons.
Since they are almost warriors strength means a lot more to them.

Assassin (thief kit):
Unlike the swashbuckler backstabbing is the preferred way of combat for this one. Their specialisation does make their general thieving skills suffer and since they get fewer points to distribute on their thieving skills and they have to use most on stealth to be effective they have little skill at anything outside backstabbing.
The damage they can do with their backstabs are, however, horrendous. Even compared to that of a normal thief and they can poison their weapons to make their strikes even more lethal. Good for people who like to kill their opponent with a few choice blows but you have to master the arts of backstabbing before using this kit. Not for beginners.

Bounty Hunter (thief kit):
Bounty hunters are a weird kind of thief who specializes in setting powerful and often magical traps. They have fewer points for their thieving abilities than regular thieves and have to use a lot of them on their trap setting skill. Traps are a very (some would say too) effective way of causing damage to your enemies. Placing multiple traps on to of eachother makes them all trigger at the same time with devastating and often lethal effect. Dragons have been felled by a devious trapsetter.

[Sir Exxon]

I will say some nice things about my favourite class, the Cavalier:

First of all, the Cavalier get's great resistances, namely 20% resistant to Fire and Acid, and are totally immune to Poison and Fear. Beeing the perfect Knights, they get great bonuses when fighting Fiends and Dragons, which becomes really useful in the long run. They have all the very good Paladin-abilities: Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Detect Evil. These are all very useful. He also gets access to some Clerical Spells, in lvl 20, he can cast 3 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th level Cleric Spells, which adds flavour to the character. We must also not forget to mention that he can wield the most powerful Two-Handed Sword in the game, which bacomes even better in ToB. If you have ToB, there are some more really good Paladin-only weapons.
His only real restriction is that he can't use missile weapons. However, this is not a big restriction at all, because he can still use Throwing Axes.

If you get a good roll, these are good stats for a Cavalier:
17 STR
15 DEX
16 CON
10 INT
15 WIS
17 CHA
The strength can easily be boosted up, using the innate ability 'Draw Upon Holy Might', as well as the 3rd level Cleric Spell 'Strength of One'. If you get an even better roll, the dexterity should be higher. However, 15 should be enough, because early in the game one can find the Gloves of Dexterity. Constitution is important for the Hit Points, which is necessary as the Cavalier is a warrior. Intelligence is not important at all, actually, so this can be as low as it wants. Wisdom is important, as it measures how many spells the Cavalier can cast. Charisma must be 17 or 18, so there isn't much we can do about that.

Weapon Proficiences should be something like this:
** Two-Handed Sword
** Axe
** Two-Handed Weapon style.
As already mentioned, the Cavalier can use the best Two-Handed Sword in the game, so this weapon type should be your usual. Two-Handed Weapon style makes up for the loss of three prof.-points, as the Cavalier can only have two points per weapon/style. And as also mentioned, the Cavalier can use Throwing Axe. Hence why we are proficient in that.

Use these, and I guarantee you a great time playing Baldur's Gate II. Enjoy! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Jim]

Indemaijinj, that's possibily one of the longest replies I've seen! Some good points! Just a few points:

STR it is slightly less important for "archer" types.

Not really. Remember that you need an 18 STR to use composite long bows.

Wisdom is of no real importance.

Other than providing some bonus dialog and a bonus to lore, WIS affects you characters mental saving throws (i.e. domination, charm, confusion etc and so it's important)

Charisma has some influence of who strikes first in a round of combat

I think you confusing charisma with speed factor. Charisma affects prices, dialog and your leadership skills (it raises the overall morale of the party, causing other party members to run off less often when losing a battle).

A wizard slayer is a bad class to start with for a newbie since they are unable to use the often life-saving healing potions.

This has been fixed in ToB.

Rangers can benefit from high wisdom due to their spellcasting abilites.

Unfortunately, WIS only provides spell bonuses for Clerics and Druids, not Rangers or Paladins.

Inquisitor: They are able to use dispel magic and true seeing

The dispel magic is especially cool here since it has a casting time of 1 (near instant) and is cast at effectively twice the castors level, i.e. a level 7 Inquisitor would have a 50% chance to dispel the defences of a level 14 mage!

The best newbie kits are probably a Cavalier, (you can get round the inability to use missile weapons by hurling throwing knives and axes), Beserker, Swashbuckler and the Barbarian.

[ 10-27-2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]