Can you prove your existence?

[Neb]

Originally posted by WOLFGIR: Hehe, I do Neb, but if you are who you become who is it that you left behind? See, the more you try to answer it, the more intricate it becomes. You can say I am as proof, but does that make it so? And as to quote Yorrick very very drastic with no more regards to other threads then just this line mind you!! "If I call myself a Russian". I cut it short, but we know Yorrick isn´t, but if he calls himslef that and say that you would believe him so. Is he a Russian for you or is he not? Is there a chance of truth being more then one aswer at the same time kinda answer??

The answer is: He is both.

To me he is a russian. To others he isn't one. So depending on how you percieve things he either is or isn't..... And since it can be percieved both ways simultaneously by different people he is both. Though not to the same person.

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by Aviendha: Is this really worthwhile? I mean, as soon a people start throwing in "how do you know that you actually exist?" questions, that's when the discussion just gets ridiculous. It's normally a way for someone who is starting to feel insecure about their own beliefs, and is now clutching at straws. I'm not saying that that is what you are doing Wolfgir, because I think you're just raising it for fun. If someone chooses to doubt their own existence, then perhaps their grip on reality is starting to fade. Or maybe they should stop sucking in the fumes! [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Not really Avi. The trick is to not see it as an existantially question, but rather an excercise of your brain. To doubt and to judge quickly leads to one path, try and fnd the path hidden before you instead. Might not lead somewhere you want to go, but the path you walk on might prove in its own mysterie a worthwhile path to take if you get my drift. To ponder philosophical questions are workout for the brain. As is the discussin of books and movies. How did you like it, what do you think he meant by... etc etc.

I don´t doubt my excistense here. See it as a challenge rather and some fun ride! And bye the way, I don´t smoke! [img]tongue.gif[/img] hehehe!

[Barry the Sprout]

Originally posted by Neb: "I think, therefore I am."

But, my dear Danish friend, using that as proof is invalid as it already presupposes an "I" that must be thinking in order to prove that it must exist. You cannot state "I think" before you have proved you exist, and the very point of it is to prove your existance. So I am afraid good ol' Descartes has one more thing to be sceptical about - his own existance, as well as the existance of every thing else.

And for all the people who have said that this is obvious or ridiculous I recommend thinking about what exact proof you have to the back up that thought. You perceive things? When I am asleep I perceive things, but they aren't real. When I stand up really quickly I see lights that aren't really there. Perception is not proof of existance as what really is perception? Perception can possibly be entirely internal so it cannot really be used to prove the existance of anything. Imagine your brain as a large computer - how do you know when your senses are telling lies? How do you know they aren't making the whole thing up? And so on... pretty tricky question as there really isn't any proof either way. Hence why the scepticism side of philosiphy is also known as rationalism...

[andrewas]

Originally posted by Neb: quote: Originally posted by andrewas: An observed fact requires no proof. Since your observing this post, something must have posted it. Therefore I must exist - but whether im human or a chat bot is something youll have to prove for yourself.

Oh, now that is WRONG. Just because you sense it does NOT mean that it exists. Your senses could be decieved by wires plugged into your brain feeding your sensory organs information about things that don't exist. Or telling you that things which exist, don't. So, wrong [img]tongue.gif[/img]
An observed fact cannot be proven. Nothing can. Except for your own existence from your own viewpoint, "I think, therefore I am."[/QUOTE]And observed fact is proven given one postulate - that your senses can be trusted. Given that, my argument holds.

Failure to accept that - well, that way leads to insanity.

[Neb]

Originally posted by andrewas: quote: Originally posted by Neb: Oh, now that is WRONG. Just because you sense it does NOT mean that it exists. Your senses could be decieved by wires plugged into your brain feeding your sensory organs information about things that don't exist. Or telling you that things which exist, don't. So, wrong [img]tongue.gif[/img] An observed fact cannot be proven. Nothing can. Except for your own existence from your own viewpoint, "I think, therefore I am."

And observed fact is proven given one postulate - that your senses can be trusted. Given that, my argument holds.

Failure to accept that - well, that way leads to insanity.[/QUOTE]Either that or you could accept that your senses MIGHT be wrong. Which does not lead to insanity, necessarily.

[Animal]

I had to write a paper on the very same subject in university. It ended up being to the tune of about 20,000 words. I think I've still got it kicking around here somewhere...

[Sir Goulum]

Well, obviously if this post is here, I, or something, must have existed to post it. The fact that it is here is proof enough of my existance. You just don't have proof that I am a human being or an alien from the planet Xyforg or if I am a computor operated thing. Something exists because of the proof of this post.

[Animal]

Prove this post exists. Perhaps is just a figment of a higher beings imagination. Actually proving anything exists is quite difficult, hence we have faith, the basis for most religions. People have been trying to prove God exists for centuries but have never really succeeded.

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by Animal: Prove this post exists. Perhaps is just a figment of a higher beings imagination. Actually proving anything exists is quite difficult, hence we have faith, the basis for most religions. People have been trying to prove God exists for centuries but have never really succeeded.

True, but if it wasn't there, then how can I be quoting it?

[skywalker]

I'm actually just the image in the mirror!

Mark