An interesting thought to a new kind of RPing

SecretMaster · 05-13-2003, 04:54 PM

Well, many of you know of my attempted Waterdales. This is just an idea, and it might not work. This idea has been buzzing in my head since the first Waterdale, and now 2 other threads have now got me thinking. I'm thinking of a Waterdale City, but on a grander scale. Instead of there just being Waterdale, other people could have other towns and cities, that all exist in an equilibrium. Some cities may have alliances, while others hate that city. One city may have some trading deals with others, but nothing more. And obviously, what happened in one city would most likely affect others. It would be making a real living world. Maybe one city is technologically advanced, while other cities are a bunch of huts. There could be a secret and private city well hidden, while others are made from inside a mountain.

Now I do realize that the chance of this happening is very slim, or atleast in my opinion based on my previous attempts at Waterdale. This is merely just an idea. Its an interesting experiment in my opinion.

FelixJaeger · 05-14-2003, 03:21 PM

I like the sound of this!
Couple of Q's.
Do you mean we take control of a city or someone within the city?
Will it be in this forum, or a scary PM based one?
Will we need character sheets?
Hmmn maybe i'm just too confused...

Legolas · 05-14-2003, 04:43 PM

It is an interesting concept. Two problems though.
One is the answer to the question where roleplaying ends and godsims or strategy games start. I've had a similar problem myself with the border wars thread. Playing on a larger scale usually means having to abandon the single character and instead roleplay an entire branch of government [img]smile.gif[/img]
I've tried to solve the problem by taking away a large part of the responsibilities of a ruler, and by giving players the ability to move to any point within the realm so they can always issue orders where needed. In this case, that wouldn't be the answer. (By the way, PMs are not scary, you just don't get a higher postcount by playing

The advantage is that they are truely private).
I do not assume a low roleplay factor means the game can't be played here, as we simply do not have a godsim forum [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Maybe in the misc games category though...

The other is the game itself. What tasks do you want to give the players, how will you decide what realms are advanced and which are not. Also, what do you expect a round of playing will look like?
If players rule their countries from their thrones, they are not likely to meet often. Your orders will be heard by your councillors, who'll instruct others, who will in turn arrange people to bring the crops inside or build that colloseum. With so many options for peace, and NPCs doing the work (including trading and showing up as diplomats), there'll be very little interaction between the players. On the other hand, if players occupy the more active positions, they'll be taking orders from an NPC who may do very different things to the nation than the player may like.
Two solutions are letting the players create multiple characters so there'll always be someone present in neighbouring realms, or gathering enough players to have them form a body of government together (a ruler, two or three councillors, some diplomats, captain of the guard, royal seer etc.). Since it's about realms interacting, you'd need enough for two governments at the very least. Three would be nice, four better.
Even with plenty of players it's going to be difficult to have them do anything other than follow a trade, build, do justice routine. You want to have things happening in the different realms, preferably so that the governments will have no choice but to interact (for better or for worse).
Here you coul;d think of rebellions, resentment between two peoples turning into hostility despite the government's wishes, or an outside threat.
In any case you'll need to mention such things well in advance so players have a chance to prepare the realm for such things.

It is not going to be impossible, but getting something as varied as this to run smoothly and keep everyone's interest will certainly be difficult. Kudos to you if you can pull it off [img]smile.gif[/img]

(oh, disabled my sig just in case

)

SecretMaster · 05-14-2003, 10:09 PM

Well, I'm not even sure I'll follow up on this idea, its just me sharing an idea. But I'm telling you, if people were to do this, it would take a sh*tload of effort. Keeping on top of Waterdale was a b*tch and a half.

But to clear up mess...
If you were aware of how Waterdale worked, its the same thing but altering a few things. Someone on this forum would run a city like Waterdale, whoever is up for it. Then, people from this forum who are interested in being a part of this city would join it. Its sorta like a clan, but the clan is a city.

And Legolas, about your people becoming godsims. I trust that anyone who would run a city wouldn't make themselves a B.S. city. And while your a mayor, the politics involved isn't much, considering that you'll (hopefully) have your own advisors that are actually OTHER members on this board.

I was also hoping that this wouldn't become a world domination game, but from many point of views, it is. I just want to create a Morrowind, kind of. War may be a factor, but thats just trimming the fat. You can be anything, to a corrupt politician, the town drunk, an innkeeper. There would be quests, jobs for everyone who is up for it. Then of course, if no one is truly being creative, the mayor can always have the message board, which is just a list of jobs that people need done, like a rat infestation or a thief.

If you really are confused, look at everything on Waterdale, though the first one was kind of disapointing in my perspective, and yet it was far more succesful than my 2nd.

What mainly encouraged me to share this idea is the add on of extra forums for the Online Roleplaying. I'm thinking hopefully, I could (and other cities) coul run their stuff on a seperate forum.

[ 05-14-2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: SecretMaster ]

Legolas · 05-15-2003, 11:24 AM

Okay, so you're basically thinking of adding three or four Waterdales together.
I think that'll require posting rounds rather than the semi-freestyle posting we've had so far, at least if you want to keep events synchronised as much as possible. I think a good deal of the success of the first Waterdale came from using the exact opposite approach, giving people the oppertunity to chat away with anyone at will, and set their own pace.
Which was also the downfall as the actions were lost in a sea of conversations, and combing through every single lengthy post for those actions just takes up too much time.

If you would take this beyond just a concept, and to a different forum, consider starting two threads per city, as well as a general information thread. That way you can keep events in the different cities seperate, but more importantly you can have players themselves seperate actions from talk. Any official events should have to be posted in the 'events' thread to count, even if they're also mentioned in the 'life in the city' thread. That way the DM has an easier job in catching up and dealing with events.

When you're merely going for quests for the townsfolk, a single city might be better, with NPCs coming from other towns if you want to add more detail to the region. If you're interested in having players run part of a city and interact with others, you do want multiple Waterdales simply because that allows more players to rule, and lets them have more influence on regional policies.

In either case you're going to need players. Perhaps it would be a fun idea to build cities in different gaming forums, and set up some trade between the boards. Something to consider, at least.

SecretMaster · 05-15-2003, 08:33 PM

Well, I was gonna have different threads for different cities, obviously if I made just one giant thread it would never go anywhere.

But to be honest, this (like i've said before) is just an idea. If I was to go through to this, I need time, time to recruit mayors of different cities, creat the rules, create the landscape. Only then could I open it. I think I'll put it on my to do list.

But anyways, thanx Legolas.

BTW Any advice is welcome, so when I do this, I know what people want n stuff.

[ 05-15-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: SecretMaster ]

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05-13-2003, 04:54 PM	#1
SecretMaster Apophis Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: New York Age: 37 Posts: 4,666	Well, many of you know of my attempted Waterdales. This is just an idea, and it might not work. This idea has been buzzing in my head since the first Waterdale, and now 2 other threads have now got me thinking. I'm thinking of a Waterdale City, but on a grander scale. Instead of there just being Waterdale, other people could have other towns and cities, that all exist in an equilibrium. Some cities may have alliances, while others hate that city. One city may have some trading deals with others, but nothing more. And obviously, what happened in one city would most likely affect others. It would be making a real living world. Maybe one city is technologically advanced, while other cities are a bunch of huts. There could be a secret and private city well hidden, while others are made from inside a mountain. Now I do realize that the chance of this happening is very slim, or atleast in my opinion based on my previous attempts at Waterdale. This is merely just an idea. Its an interesting experiment in my opinion.

05-14-2003, 03:21 PM	#2
FelixJaeger Symbol of Cyric Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: The Cloudy Town Of Hellview Age: 36 Posts: 1,202	I like the sound of this! Couple of Q's. Do you mean we take control of a city or someone within the city? Will it be in this forum, or a scary PM based one? Will we need character sheets? Hmmn maybe i'm just too confused...

05-14-2003, 04:43 PM	#3
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	It is an interesting concept. Two problems though. One is the answer to the question where roleplaying ends and godsims or strategy games start. I've had a similar problem myself with the border wars thread. Playing on a larger scale usually means having to abandon the single character and instead roleplay an entire branch of government [img]smile.gif[/img] I've tried to solve the problem by taking away a large part of the responsibilities of a ruler, and by giving players the ability to move to any point within the realm so they can always issue orders where needed. In this case, that wouldn't be the answer. (By the way, PMs are not scary, you just don't get a higher postcount by playing The advantage is that they are truely private). I do not assume a low roleplay factor means the game can't be played here, as we simply do not have a godsim forum [img]tongue.gif[/img] Maybe in the misc games category though... The other is the game itself. What tasks do you want to give the players, how will you decide what realms are advanced and which are not. Also, what do you expect a round of playing will look like? If players rule their countries from their thrones, they are not likely to meet often. Your orders will be heard by your councillors, who'll instruct others, who will in turn arrange people to bring the crops inside or build that colloseum. With so many options for peace, and NPCs doing the work (including trading and showing up as diplomats), there'll be very little interaction between the players. On the other hand, if players occupy the more active positions, they'll be taking orders from an NPC who may do very different things to the nation than the player may like. Two solutions are letting the players create multiple characters so there'll always be someone present in neighbouring realms, or gathering enough players to have them form a body of government together (a ruler, two or three councillors, some diplomats, captain of the guard, royal seer etc.). Since it's about realms interacting, you'd need enough for two governments at the very least. Three would be nice, four better. Even with plenty of players it's going to be difficult to have them do anything other than follow a trade, build, do justice routine. You want to have things happening in the different realms, preferably so that the governments will have no choice but to interact (for better or for worse). Here you coul;d think of rebellions, resentment between two peoples turning into hostility despite the government's wishes, or an outside threat. In any case you'll need to mention such things well in advance so players have a chance to prepare the realm for such things. It is not going to be impossible, but getting something as varied as this to run smoothly and keep everyone's interest will certainly be difficult. Kudos to you if you can pull it off [img]smile.gif[/img] (oh, disabled my sig just in case )

05-14-2003, 10:09 PM	#4
SecretMaster Apophis Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: New York Age: 37 Posts: 4,666	Well, I'm not even sure I'll follow up on this idea, its just me sharing an idea. But I'm telling you, if people were to do this, it would take a shtload of effort. Keeping on top of Waterdale was a btch and a half. But to clear up mess... If you were aware of how Waterdale worked, its the same thing but altering a few things. Someone on this forum would run a city like Waterdale, whoever is up for it. Then, people from this forum who are interested in being a part of this city would join it. Its sorta like a clan, but the clan is a city. And Legolas, about your people becoming godsims. I trust that anyone who would run a city wouldn't make themselves a B.S. city. And while your a mayor, the politics involved isn't much, considering that you'll (hopefully) have your own advisors that are actually OTHER members on this board. I was also hoping that this wouldn't become a world domination game, but from many point of views, it is. I just want to create a Morrowind, kind of. War may be a factor, but thats just trimming the fat. You can be anything, to a corrupt politician, the town drunk, an innkeeper. There would be quests, jobs for everyone who is up for it. Then of course, if no one is truly being creative, the mayor can always have the message board, which is just a list of jobs that people need done, like a rat infestation or a thief. If you really are confused, look at everything on Waterdale, though the first one was kind of disapointing in my perspective, and yet it was far more succesful than my 2nd. What mainly encouraged me to share this idea is the add on of extra forums for the Online Roleplaying. I'm thinking hopefully, I could (and other cities) coul run their stuff on a seperate forum. [ 05-14-2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: SecretMaster ]

05-15-2003, 11:24 AM	#5
Legolas Jack Burton Join Date: March 31, 2001 Location: The zephyr lands beneath the brine. Age: 39 Posts: 5,459	Okay, so you're basically thinking of adding three or four Waterdales together. I think that'll require posting rounds rather than the semi-freestyle posting we've had so far, at least if you want to keep events synchronised as much as possible. I think a good deal of the success of the first Waterdale came from using the exact opposite approach, giving people the oppertunity to chat away with anyone at will, and set their own pace. Which was also the downfall as the actions were lost in a sea of conversations, and combing through every single lengthy post for those actions just takes up too much time. If you would take this beyond just a concept, and to a different forum, consider starting two threads per city, as well as a general information thread. That way you can keep events in the different cities seperate, but more importantly you can have players themselves seperate actions from talk. Any official events should have to be posted in the 'events' thread to count, even if they're also mentioned in the 'life in the city' thread. That way the DM has an easier job in catching up and dealing with events. When you're merely going for quests for the townsfolk, a single city might be better, with NPCs coming from other towns if you want to add more detail to the region. If you're interested in having players run part of a city and interact with others, you do want multiple Waterdales simply because that allows more players to rule, and lets them have more influence on regional policies. In either case you're going to need players. Perhaps it would be a fun idea to build cities in different gaming forums, and set up some trade between the boards. Something to consider, at least.

05-15-2003, 08:33 PM	#6
SecretMaster Apophis Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: New York Age: 37 Posts: 4,666	Well, I was gonna have different threads for different cities, obviously if I made just one giant thread it would never go anywhere. But to be honest, this (like i've said before) is just an idea. If I was to go through to this, I need time, time to recruit mayors of different cities, creat the rules, create the landscape. Only then could I open it. I think I'll put it on my to do list. But anyways, thanx Legolas. BTW Any advice is welcome, so when I do this, I know what people want n stuff. [ 05-15-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: SecretMaster ]

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