The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Larry_OHF]

Very good. I understand your question about my last statement. You would therefore freak out if I was to tell you of other beliefs my church shares. I would like to share these with everyone, but I would not want to give anyone looking to have some fun fuel to kindle a fire, you know what I mean? I am not saying that you would, but somebody might.

Let me add that we believe in the Bible(meaning collection of books) as the word of God, so long as it is translated correctly. There are many errors in the translation that we know make the scriptures harder to understand. We also know that the Bible does not contain everything that God has ever taught His children. The Dead Sea Scrolls proves that. There were many interesting new discoveries made from them. Those scrolls are now in the ownership of our church, being studied and translated.
I have read some verses from the Original Hebrew of the Bible. I know alot about what it states. I actually have some of the text somewhere here in the house.

Let me consider what I feel right in sharing with you, and I shall post again. Promise.


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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Very good. I understand your question about my last statement. You would therefore freak out if I was to tell you of other beliefs my church shares. I would like to share these with everyone, but I would not want to give anyone looking to have some fun fuel to kindle a fire, you know what I mean? I am not saying that you would, but somebody might. Let me add that we believe in the Bible(meaning collection of books) as the word of God, so long as it is translated correctly. There are many errors in the translation that we know make the scriptures harder to understand. We also know that the Bible does not contain everything that God has ever taught His children. The Dead Sea Scrolls proves that. There were many interesting new discoveries made from them. Those scrolls are now in the ownership of our church, being studied and translated. I have read some verses from the Original Hebrew of the Bible. I know alot about what it states. I actually have some of the text somewhere here in the house. Let me consider what I feel right in sharing with you, and I shall post again. Promise.

That will be interesting, Larry. Thanks for not staying angry!

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[Larry_OHF]

As far as referencing other books, I should not have used something that only I have. Since we all share the Bible as the universal source of reference, I should not have gone outside that boundary. But I really liked that definition. The book does not have a # to look up, it is in my King james Version of the Bible. But my Dictionary is an added bonus to my scriptures, that only members of my church have, though it can be made available to anyone that wants it.
Am I making you mre curious as I go? Sorry...I am just trying to be reserved in my comments, but I find that difficult. If you do not want me referencing non-bible stuff, then tell me so, and I will stop.

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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Moridin]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Let me consider what I feel right in sharing with you, and I shall post again. Promise.

Just a curious question, Larry...is it that you feel insecure posting the views of your church, or is it that the church does not want it's views shared?

Don't take the word insecure wrong, can't think of a better word

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Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig
I've got to admit it's getting better, it's getting better all the time
Bossman of Better Funny Stuff.....of the Laughing Hyenas!

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Moridin: Just a curious question, Larry...is it that you feel insecure posting the views of your church, or is it that the church does not want it's views shared? Don't take the word insecure wrong, can't think of a better word

Neither.
My beliefs are very meaningful to me, and sometimes I feel like I may be just throwing this stuff out there to be stepped on.
When I hold something as sacred and true in my heart, and it is contested...I feel sorrowful. I guess it is like somebody burning a cross or scriptures.
I am not insecure of the beliefs themselves, just about how others take them.
My apologies for being so secretive. It is not my intention. I just cannot say much without quoting something that will make people go "where on earth did he get that idea?"
I cannot prove anything to any of you of anything I have said, or will say in the future. What I want to know is...how open are you to new ideas that you are not used to or have been subjected to? If I can be assured that you are open, and not closed off to new ideas, I would speak more freely.



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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Fljotsdale]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: As far as referencing other books, I should not have used something that only I have. Since we all share the Bible as the universal source of reference, I should not have gone outside that boundary. But I really liked that definition. The book does not have a # to look up, it is in my King james Version of the Bible. But my Dictionary is an added bonus to my scriptures, that only members of my church have, though it can be made available to anyone that wants it. Am I making you mre curious as I go? Sorry...I am just trying to be reserved in my comments, but I find that difficult. If you do not want me referencing non-bible stuff, then tell me so, and I will stop.

Larry - using a reference book that no-one else can refer to is not really going to benefit anyone, I think. I still have lots of JW books that I could use, but I do not, because, even though they are freely available to anyone who wants have them, most people do not own them and they are not available in all libraries. So I feel it would be unfair to use them. Besides, I don't agree with all they teach, anyway.

I try to limit my references to the bible, or to books that are availabe via public libraries or the internet, so that anyone who is sufficiently interested can look them up and see my quotes in context. We could not do that with your religions reference books, could we?

However, there is no reason for you not to use information in your own religions books, and back that info up with scriptures, if you can.

Use your own judgement!


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[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Larry - using a reference book that no-one else can refer to is not really going to benefit anyone, I think. .. We could not do that with your religions reference books, could we?

Yes...I think you can get online and see my references! You will have to tolerate me trying to find the link, but I will supply it when I find it, OK??? It will be in Acrobat reader format, if I remember...




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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Larry_OHF]

BRB
(Be right back, for you net lingo challenged folks...)

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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Larry_OHF]

Woo-hoo!
I found it.
If any of you want to access the resources that I am using during this debate, please feel free to access the Church's Website.
It is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

First, you will see a guide on the upper left.
Click The Scriptures.
Next, under study helps, you can access my Dictionary I quoted from.
Or you can see the other books.
It is in plain text.
It is not Acrobat, like I thought.


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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
---------------------
Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: Huh? Of COURSE they had seen death, Onthepequod! Do you think animals and insects were not dying while they were in the Garden? They were not in the least shocked when god killed animals to make skin garments for them!

Good try Fljotsdale. Why don't you point to the proof of them being in the garden for a long time? Why don't you point to the proof that they witnessed death of animals (insets included)? Remember that the garden was utopian. Man's year's became numbered as part of the fall. "And to dust you shall return." Why do you assume that the life expectancies that apply to animals now applied to them then? It did not work that way with man.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Fljotsdale:

And how could god tell them not to eat the fruit of the tree because on the day they ate from it they would die, if they had no idea what death was? Bit unfair, that, don't you think? Eve was certainly aware of it - her response to Satan showed she knew what it was. They were evidently in that Garden a LONG time before the fall! They knew what death was, ok,
[/QUOTE]

Did you read what I previously wrote?

You presume that in all of God's wanderings and discussion with Adam and Eve that he never elucidated, to both Adam and Eve, as to what he meant by "die." Remember we do not have the full transcript of all of their conversations. Secondly, I believe that earlier I pointed out that while the translations are very close they are not perfect. Perhaps you speak Aramaic or Hebrew and would like to tell me what other ways the word that is translated here as "die" also translates and if there is any possible translations left out. We have already visited this issue in relation to Greek. I know this is not beyond you.


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[This message has been edited by onthepequod (edited 09-09-2001).]