Crossbows

[Butterfingers]

This morning, I started fooling around with my Dwarven Crossbowman. After reading Alson's bit about crossbows, I wanted to look into it my self.

Now, I have had folks use crossbows before. Like Jan, or Nalia, using the Light Crossbow of Speed. I have ran an Archer through the game with GM in shortbows.

And, at the moment, I have a stumpy little Dwarven Fighter (No kit) with GM in Crossbows. And one point in axe. Need to get single weapon style some time.

Ok, using a plain wooden crossbow from Jon's Funhouse, I started to notice just how fast stuff was dying. Dwarf shoots, stuff dies, pretty simple.

After getting out into the city proper, and, doing a few quests and selling some stuff, I had just enough gold to buy the Heavy Crossbow of Searing or the Giant Hair Crossbow. I got the HCoS.

And right away, the first thing I notice, is how much freaking damage I am doing. My archer, even with called shot later on in the game, was barely even getting close to what my Dwarf was capable of doing in the start of the game. Slow? Perhaps a little. Damage over time? Why bother? I mean, he was one shot killing most anything he pointed at. He would take aim, and, POW! Exploding chunky bits flying all over the screen.

The only problem I can see is lack of to hit later, when monsters need highly enchanted weapons to be hit. I am almost tempted to start an actual Archer with Grandmastery in crossbows just to see what it would do.

I hate to say this, but, in SoA, bows SUCK EGGS! I am rather disapointed really.

[Alson]

It is surprising, isn't it? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Unfortunately, you don't have ToB, so you're missing on both Greater Whirlwind and one amazing Crossbow.

Wait until you'll try slings with high strength characters, though...

[Baros]

Crossbows are so much better than I ever realised - I've always been put off by the high speed factor and single shot problems. I wouldn't let the low enchantment levels put you off as all missiles share that problem (bar the ones that produce mystic ammo) and the amount of elemental effects on crossbows can be decisive.

Twang. Thunk. Agh.

[Butterfingers]

Well Anomen with 20ish or so str (DUHM) and the Sling of Seeking is a terror.

What amazes me is the actual crossbow damage though. Something is WRONG. The numbers don't add up. I have had a few criticals of upwards of 50ish damage or so. My Archer was good at disrupting mages. My Dwarven Crossbowman is good at making mages EXPLODE! What is it with the "chunky death" animation and crossbows? In Slaver ambushes, the usual unit mage never even manages to get off a spell hardly, just a big SPLAT and scattering of body bits. My Archer was almost God on the battlefield. One or two shots could cripple something badly enough for the melee units to finish it off quickly. My Dwarven Crossbowman IS God. Minsc and Jay barely have time to close the gap. By the time they get there, there is nothing left to fight usually. If Stumpy Stonenose drinks an Oil of Speed or is Hasted somehow, sheesh. Gross OVERKILL. Armed with a few Bolts of Biting, some Bolts of Lightning, and a few +1 bolts along with regular bolts, I can lay a serious smackdown on most anything in my path. The fire damage from the HCoS makes short work of mages even if they manage to get a stoneskin up.

Either somehow, the damage listed is wrong, or, something weird with rolling the damage numbers, something is not quite what it seems to be damage wise. Perhaps crossbows are bugged somehow? There is no way I should be doing this sort of damage. There is something peculiar about it.

[Dundee Slaytern]

There is nothing wrong with your figures. Bows got shafted in the damage department in BG2, while crossbows remained more or less as effective as they were in BG1. Examine your Normal Heavy Crossbow, then examine your Normal Composite Longbow. The NHC is simply brutal when compared to the NCL, let alone the enchanted ones... ...

Then examine your bolts, and compare them to your arrows. It all adds up. Heavy Crossbows of Doom are appropriate for non-Archers as they need every shot to count. Archers though, will be better off with a Light Crossbow of Speed as the damage output will be dramatic. Think Tuigan Bow.

[Butterfingers]

You are probably right, however, it has been my experience so far that the Light Crossbow of Speed is not needed. Yet. The sheer damage output is so brutal that with most fights, I don't need the extra shot. I might try the LCoS during say, a dragon fight, or, something that might live through the first shot or two. I have it in my backpack. So far, using the Heavy Crossbow of Searing has been down right overkill. Also, the slightly slower shooting speed allows me to conserve a few bolts here and there. I don't burn through them so quickly. [img]smile.gif[/img] Just a guess, but, when I hit level 13, I think I should have all the shots I need.

This only reconfirms my idea of taking an Assassin, then dualing to a Fighter and majoring in crossbows. I see truly deadly potential.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Hmmmm... expanding on SixOfSpades' idea here. Kuo-Tua Paralytic Bolts.

Jasmine sees a target, she fires off her crossbow. The target is stunned, his blood is polluted with poison, he tries to scream because his pants are on fire but he cannot move and there is a crazy Ranger coming his way with a Flail in one hand and a hamster in the other.

The cheesy thing about Poison Weapon is that the only way to avoid damage from it is to be immuned to poison. Darts are an Assassin's best friend due to this fact. Each poke from even an unenchanted Dart is cause for much misery and panic to the victim, let alone Darts of Wounding or Asp's Nest Darts. Poisoned Throwing Knives are fun too. I had a Hellavu fun with my solo Assassin, trying to poison every dang opponent to death. Everything she used was poisoned. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[karlosovic]

I recall hearing something about crossbows being outlawed at some time in the middle ages (obviously not all of it, or maybe it was like a military assault rifle in the present day). Anyway, the point is that crossbows DO actually make people explode. It's a highly concussive impact, on top of a big bit of sharp metal sticking through you. Just like some high powered rifles of today, a solid crossbow will hit a person with such force that for example, a shot in the upper arm will cause enough pressure in the veins to catastrophically rupture the heart.

Considering this, I think crossbows should do a lot more damage than a bow, just at a slower rate of fire.

[Indemaijinj]

Crossbows can be used against un-/and lightly armoured vehicles.
At the time where such vehicles made their entry on the battlefield the crossbow was long since made obsolete by other weapons with far higher firing rates.

[Butterfingers]

Crossbows became outlawed in the middle ages after a certain type of crossbow was introduced.

It was called a Kingslayer. It had many names, but, it served one purpose. It was the world's first long distance sniping weapon. It was well machined, highly accurate, and even had a crude scope. (By today's standards... It was awesome back then) It even had a crude trim and leveler, a set of devices that allowed you to click the sighting to adjust it for wind and distance.

The crossbow was labeled a cruel and uncivilized weapon. Many countries finally outlawed it. It was not so much the crossbow always, as it was bolt design.

Most crossbow bolts were quick and clean, did death in an instant, and could easily punch right though the toughest of middle ages armors, the fine Gothic plates. It made the Knight obsolete quickly, and, with the invention of gunpowder, the Knight went the way of the dodo.

Some crossbow bolts where down right CRUEL. In particular, the Dum Dum Bolt. It was tipped with a dull blob of lead. They had poor accuracy, poor distance, but that was ok. They were fired downwards, usually from a tower, and used to break up riots or civil uprisings down in the courtyard below. They were also used on invading armies. Just like the soft lead dum dum bullets today, they left fantastically cruel wounds. Before the lead tipped bolt would impact, traveling though the air would cause the clay soft lead to spread. On impact, it would almost burst. The body would have a shockwave travel through it that broke many bones, caused internal bleeding, any shot was usually fatal, but it took a long time to die.

Other bolt designed included the Harpoon, a bolt that had barbs going in both directions. It ripped going in, it ripped when pulled out. There was the infamous Stutgart bolts. Back then, these were weapons of biological origin. These bolts were actually soaked in vats full of sewage and rotting dead stuff. They caused horrible infections. Much like the dead cow launched from a catapult, the psychological factor was the key.