08-27-2003, 09:32 AM | #131 | |
Red Wizard of Thay
Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: Upstate NY, USA
Age: 51
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~~OFFICIAL BOYTOY OF CLOUDY'S CAFE....WELL...OK...JUST CLOUDY!~~ "May the wings of liberty never lose a feather!" |
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08-27-2003, 09:47 AM | #132 |
Symbol of Bane
Join Date: November 26, 2001
Location: Texas
Age: 75
Posts: 8,167
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Just for the record, a bastard *can* be male or female. It's original meaning was "a child born out of wedlock." [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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08-27-2003, 10:33 AM | #133 |
Galvatron
Join Date: January 10, 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Age: 56
Posts: 2,109
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"Just for the record, a bastard *can* be male or female. It's original meaning was 'a child born out of wedlock.'" Or anyone who's killed Kenny.
[ 08-27-2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Thoran ] |
08-27-2003, 10:53 AM | #134 | |||
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 43
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It IS sexist to say women can not be good fighters. And it IS sexist to say women can not have "18 str". I looked in the 2nd player's handbook, and the max press of a 18 str character is 255 pounds. A very quick search on google showed me a teen that lifted 300 pounds, and she is certainly not the strongest women in the world. She is now 19, she had won 3 gold medal by the time she was 16 years old. Quote:
I said lots of things in this thread, and it seem some of you are mixing them all in one thing. So I'll as a reminder I'll make a summary I said: -I said I think considering women as weak and unable to fight is sexist. -I said I think women have the genetic capability to become as strong as men, and who knows, maybe even stronger. -I said women can fight as well as any men, and I said agility, training and flexibility are more important than strength alone to be sucessfull in a fight. Those opinions are similar but are still different, and when the people of this thread mix them up together it really annoy me. If some of you want to discuss with me on these, then discuss them one at a time, and not in one idea. It's mixing them all together and confusing everything, and I don't like that. [ 08-27-2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Luvian ]
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08-27-2003, 11:06 AM | #135 | |
Manshoon
Join Date: November 15, 2002
Location: Amsterdam
Age: 47
Posts: 248
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Do you mean that if tomorrow a girl is born she could become the strongest person in the world if she is raised in a certain way?
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<img border=\"0\" alt=\"[firedevil]\" title=\"\" src=\"graemlins/firedevil.gif\" /> Fire... |
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08-27-2003, 11:35 AM | #136 | |||
Dungeon Master
Join Date: May 19, 2003
Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Age: 50
Posts: 93
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Oh man why are you going guys doing this to me(LOL)! There is a lot going on in my life right now which is affecting my language/words and my tone. Also I've been typing Thoran alot when I mean to type Luvian so look out. AND once again CloudyBringer I'm sorry.
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I'm saying that RIGHT NOW men DO have a genetic advantage to gaining muscle mass. No one seems to refute this. Are up saying if we took the average man and the average women and started training them at the age of ten the woman could get just as strong as the man. Take two glasses and start filling them with water. Fill one at 1 1/2 drops per second and the other a 1 drop per second. After a minute which one has more water. I'm saying (ON AVERAGE) no matter how hard a woman trains a man training just as hard will get bigger muscles. I'm saying the rate at which the glasses get filled depends on the genes (sigh. ftr not that glasses have genes). Sure if a woman trains as hard as she could she might get 1 1/2 to 2 but if a man trained as hard as he could he might get 2 1/2. Quote:
I won't believe that if for the next generation if there was no social pressure for women to look any particular way that women would be just as strong as men. We're talking about thousands (perhaps millions!) of years of evolution. We're not talking about the future we're talking about right now. I don't think anyone is being sexist either for the record. But Thoran was, perhaps jokingly, called sexist and so was The Hierophant. The whole point I have been trying to make was that they were not being sexist and the reason why they have been called sexist is due to radical feminism brainwashing. The reason they were called sexist is they said that men were better at something than women. It wasn't the position that men are better fighters that was attacked it was the position that men are stronger. If it was proposed that men are better fighters because they are hairier I could understand but the evidence that men are bigger and stronger is all around. I really dislike the negative langauge: women lack, weak etc. I'm not saying women are weak. I'm not saying women lack. I'm saying men are stronger and possess certain genes more suited to build bigger stronger muscles. Saying men are strong is not the same as saying women are weak. It's not the same thing. I use positive terms to describe men and it gets turned around and is used in the negative implying I'm being negative towards women which is simply not true. The use of langauge here is just another example of how society has been brain-washed into thinking anything pro-men is anti-women. I haven't heard anything about this from you so I'll just ask. I pose this question to anyone not just Luvian. Do you think that it's possible that you are to some degree brain-washed to think this way? And man-oh-man-oh-man why do my posts get so darn huge!!! |
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08-27-2003, 11:51 AM | #137 | |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Do you mean that if tomorrow a girl is born she could become the strongest person in the world if she is raised in a certain way? [/QUOTE]No, I mean that tomorow, if most of the guy on earth decided they liked strong muscular women better, and that slim women were ugly, men would mate with strong muscular women. If we kept that up for generations, women might be as strong and have as much testosterone as men do today. Basically, what I'm saying is that women today are weaker than men because for the last 400 years or so, slim women have been the most popular, so they were the one to mate more often, and they are the one that passed there genes around the most. Before that time, women were stronger than they are today. While most women today are weaker than men, it does not mean that there is not some exception, either. I wasn't even trying to discuss that, but for some reason, the discussion made me say it. It's not even important to the discussion and I'm not sure why so much people want to argue about this. To me, this is even more off-topic than the off-topic discussion we were having, which was about if it was possible for a medieval women to have 18 str, and if they could be good fighter classes. At least that was what I wasted to talk about. So to get back on the discussion, yes, I think women can have 18 str. Why? simply because it has happened already. Just look at the link in my last post, and consider that in the medieval age, women were already stronger than thei are today. And even if there was no such links, there are always exceptions, and adventurers are already exceptions, so why not? Apparently it's acceptable to be the son of a god, it's acceptable to have innate magical powers, but it's not acceptable for a women to be strong? If someone is willing to believe in magic, orcs, demigods, and elves, but is not willing to believe in strong fighting women, then that person has a very bad vision of women. That is sexist, which is the second off-topic discussion we were having... [ 08-27-2003, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]
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08-27-2003, 12:00 PM | #138 |
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
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Oh my! This is surely one of my longer threads! No worries, IamThumper (love the nick! ), it's a bit off the original topic but related and it's a good thread!
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08-27-2003, 12:25 PM | #139 | ||||||
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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I'll split your post in two replies, to adress the two ideas seperatly.
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And by the way, I didn't say no social pressure, I said there would be social pressure for women to be strong. I didn't talk about only one generation, either.
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08-27-2003, 12:52 PM | #140 | |||
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 27, 2001
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I agree that men and women each have their strength and weakness. The only reason I posted was because it was said that is was unrealistic to have fighting women (which is totaly false in my opinion, as seen my other posts). And that it was unrealistic to think they could have the max starting D&D strength. (Which is also false, as it is possible, not for the average women, but I never talked about the average women). Here's what I had to say about this two posts ago: "Apparently it's acceptable to be the son of a god, it's acceptable to have innate magical powers, but it's not acceptable for a women to be strong? If someone is willing to believe in magic, orcs, demigods, and elves, but is not willing to believe in strong fighting women, then that person has a very bad vision of women. That is sexist" Quote:
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