Detained crossing the border

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: hehe well when i was coming back from Asia in 1996 i had to stop at LAX for a connecting flight to Vancouver. I had several hours so had to hang out at the airport for awhile. The customs officer asked me what i did for a living. Being a youngish man who did nothing for a living at the time, but had recently finished a five month stint as a treeplanter.. i told him that i was a treeplanter. "What is that?" he asked. "It means i plant trees." I answered. He gave me quite a dirty look and then let me through.. Now the thing is when i arrived in Vancouver.. i discovered that my luggage ended up in San Francisco.. Were the two events related? You be the judge...

Uhhh isn't that a bit paranoid? I have had my luggage misrouted too, and it didn't take an altercation with customs to do it. Also, I would like to ask, how do you measure a "dirty look"? It seems that this is a rather subjective and nebulous kind of thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ziroc]

Originally posted by Animal: I just returned from Boston on business, landing in Vancouver this morning Wed Feb 20, 2003. I was SUPPOSED to land in Vancouver monday evening, but apparantly, to the US, I look like someone who has a bomb implanted in their back! Twelve years ago, I was in an accident and ended up with a couple of pins and a few screws in my back. Well of course these are great for setting off metal detectors in airport security stops. Now, I've been to Japan, Scotland, Britain, France and Italy during the last year with no major problems. I carry a certificate from my surgeon as well as copies of X-rays, and usually it takes no more than an hour to go through security anywhere! I arrived at the airport in Boston, 5 hours early thinking this would be plenty of time. WRONG! I was detained for 36 hours, subjected to not one, but two body cavity searches, led out of the airport in shackles to the hospital so they could take X-rays for themselves and wasn't even offered so much as a f**king appology! Now, I ask you what the hell is wrong with the US? I was wearing a $1500 suit, my shoes cose $300, and had documents proving where I was and what I was doing, signed documentation from my surgeon and the Canadian government indicating I had pins in my lower back. My notebook computer was disassembled and is now completely unusable, all files on my hard drive gone. I have filed official complaints with both Canadian and US officials. I have never been treated so badly in my life! All that was missing were the 'SS' patches and swastikas on the US custom and security personnell. Anyway, that's my rant, I had to get it off my chest. I have a meeting with my lawyers tomorrow.

OMG.. this IS so wrong. I am sorry for this. You need to call the US Embassy and bitch about this. You could sue the shit out of them!

I understand the need for security, but jesus. This is going WAY WAY WAY to far. I apologise for them, by friend, the 'normal' people of the USA are not like this.

When I went to Kentucky last Nov, At Tampa getting ON the plane, the pulled ME aside, and check me, and told ME to unbuckle my belt and take it off, and losen my button on my jeans. NOTHING compared to what you went through, but I was kinda upset *I* got pulled over. [img]smile.gif[/img] But get this--leaving Louisville, their security didn't even talk to me, I walked through the thingy and went on through.. so in SOME places it's lax, and others it so tight, it's stupid.

Again, I am sorry man! Please look into a lawsuit on this. It's the only way to stop it!

I get your point Ms. Cloudy and will temper my responses accordingly.

Edit: I didn't see you post when I posted Cloudy, I was reading from the top down. I have deleted my response since you responded for me.

[ 02-20-2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Irongrinder]

Woh, all I can say is you have my sympathy

And I thought I had a hard time when I went to Israel for holidays, the questioned me for hours and my mother got stripped when she went this year, but this is unhuman. I'm sorry for you Animal

I only read the first post, haven't read the rest. But I always thought thses things to happen for like one or two hours, but I guess they can overdo bigtime. Definately keep on arguing for compensation and an apologie, you deserve it [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Ziroc: I apologise for them, by friend, the 'normal' people of the USA are not like this.

This also goes for the others who apologised on behalf of that bunch of rude err well ******* ... I don't think you need to convince anyone! And you definitely don't have to apologise for their rudeness! [img]smile.gif[/img]
I already know "normal" Americans aren't like that, because I interact with them every day and count some of them among my close friends. That's the good thing about IW: that, give or take a few "loose projectiles", most people here are respectful and great people. This forum actually heightens understanding of each other's position, and makes you realise you have more in common than you knew.
I would not hold someone responsible for anything their fellow country(wo)man did or said, and I would certainly not base my opinion of a group of people on the actions of a few nutcases. We're all human - every country has its merits and its... less attractive sides. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by MagiK: Uhhh isn't that a bit paranoid? I have had my luggage misrouted too, and it didn't take an altercation with customs to do it. Also, I would like to ask, how do you measure a "dirty look"? It seems that this is a rather subjective and nebulous kind of thing [img]smile.gif[/img]

It was a joke MagiK.

Melusine hits on a very good point, yoou cannot judge people, individuals as a group, you have to take them as individuals, sometimes stereotyping is dead on, but when you break the mob down to its component level, individuals are all different.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Melusine: Er. That's not what Cloudy was saying, if I'm not mistaken. Jim, DOH, I think we're actually in agreement. Nowhere have I said anything to the tune of airport security being wrong. In fact, read my posts, I have said several times I am all for it. Of course! Like I said, who isn't? No one here is saying security should slacken so that terrorists and other assorted lunatics can board planes. But sorry, I don't think that excuses rudeness on the part of the custom officials. Another thing, I KNOW the "innocent until proven" thing legally only applies to Americans when you're in America. Does that mean that if a Canadian or Brit visits, it's all right to treat them the other way round, i.e. guilty until proven innocent? If you think so, I wish you a pleasant time in the bunker together with Magik and hope you have enough pics of Cloudy with you there... Seriously though, even though LEGALLY custom officials may be allowed to treat a Canadian such as Animal as rudely as they want, doesn't mean I don't find it UTTERLY despicable when they do! What if it was Harleyquinn or me with the same story? Would you excuse the same behaviour then? There is absolutely NO NEED for custom people to be rude or mean in order to perform their job, so if they are, I maintain that they're wrong. [img]smile.gif[/img] Harleyquinn, just to put your mind at ease - I have been on this forum for over two years and that sort of thing is kept at an absolute minimum here. I sincerely doubt you'd ever get such a comment directed at you. Sure, I've seen well-meant compliments and stuff like that, but if someone were to send a female member of the board rude or obscene messages, have no doubt that measures will be taken immediately. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You're basically right Mel. I *am* saying that custom's officials can and should use any means necessary to do their jobs, but I'm *also* saying that there's no reason to be so rude and inconsiderate about it. So yeah, I think we're basically on the same side.

However, I still maintain, as does Magik I believe, that there are two sides to this. Animal gave us his version. I cant say one way or the other how he acted/reacted to/with the agents, so I can only comment on what he wrote, and, I have to say, I am honestly appaled by the agents rudeness and bad behavior. However, I can also comment that, in my experience, and with my own eyes, I have seen the majority of people be rude and snippy with security/customs people, and, IMO rudeness is it's own reward.

As to the you and/or Harley question, well, that would depend. If you were being polite and patient, and if the agents were being anything but, then I would agree that you would have a legitimate issue. But if you were being pushy, rude, or acting outrageously, then the agents would have IMO just cause to treat you the same way. However, knowing your sweet and loverly disposition, I doubt that there's any need to worry about that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

One last note, directed to the thread at large. I think that too much is being made of Magik's 'if you dont like it, dont come' statement. I, personally read that to mean that, if you dont want to deal with tough, possibly rude security, then you shouldn't put yourself in a position to subject yourself to that behavior. If you choose to put yourself in a situation where you know that something like that is a real possibility, then you really have noone to complain to.

Anyway...back to (I think) the original point. I wish there were some way for the security to be more effectively trained, and that they would be required to take customer service training. Like I said earlier, respect and courtesy has to start somewhere, and, I think that it should probably start with the people who are *supposed* to be the professionals.

[Nachtrafe]

Originally posted by Yorick: : troll:

Just my opinion Yorick, but I think that this was both unnecessary and rude! [img]graemlins/nono.gif[/img]

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Djinn Raffo: It was a joke MagiK.

Ah, thanks Djinn! I didn't want to make Magik look silly there, but...

MagiK, I don't think anyone WAS generalising people according to which group they belonged to - that was not why I posted. I just got the impression that *some* Americans felt embarrassed about their countrymen's rudeness. Now I know *I* would have been embarrassed if it happened in my country, but I didn't think they needed to apologise for something they didn't do. Like I said, we IW-members don't need convincing: we get plenty examples of great and respectful people from every country simply by reading their posts here, so the occasional rude one does not discredit his/her country. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Jim, sure, I'll give you that we only know Animal's side of the story, maybe I do like to think well of people if they give me no reason to think the opposite. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
However, theoretically speaking, of course it might well be the case that he was being rude to them. To me, that still doesn't justify the way he was treated though. When I get snapped at in the supermarket or by whoever, my usual response is to give them a smile and a cheery "have a nice day". Sure, if they're rude to me, I can "justify" being rude in return, but is it going to be in any way constructive when I do?

Edit2: Oh and I do tend to agree about the troll pic Hugh... sorry
I love you mate but wasn't that slightly well...rude? Like I was just saying about being constructive...

And I must add I thought Magik's comment in question WAS very rude as well, I'd already made a post to that effect. Going "EVERYBODY I've ever seen hassled at airports was being a total ass but that doesn't mean anything about you of course, just wanted to say I've never seen anyone getting that treatment who didn't deserve it"[/paraphrase] is pure baiting IMO. But that doesn't justify being equally rude in return (nice demonstration of what I said to Jim, right? )

Edit3 (man... ) Whoops, sorry Cloudy!!

[ 02-20-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]