How do you ascertain the worth in a worldview? - Page 6

WOLFGIR · 09-07-2001, 05:28 PM

Well book or no book, eden or no eden pleasure and hell. As is wtih most things check the revelations again and you can find alot of mumbling things in the bible that can lead astray, and I did mention that book (still haven´t found the name of it..) is more than just about eden. Alot as I mentioned about Jesus life, the (damn my english, I lack too many words to make this one fly) "problem" with the amount of men that came to get Jesus, is wrong. It says he was collected by fourty men, though the forces name means more or less 400 man supported by a 100 cavelarists and at least four tanks. The thought of the Romans to see Jesus as a no-threat is the point with this little "teaser". Well I have to read and look up some words before I can get back in full to you!

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Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

Fljotsdale · 09-07-2001, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Conan:
Why wouldnt the aspect of the remnant take a grafted form like under Ezra and Nehemiah? Well, it is prophetic and it seems salvation has gone to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. 7:3-4 Please tell me your thoughts on this.

Ok. Give me till tomorrow to look up the scriptures, ok?

------------------

Fljotsdale · 09-07-2001, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WOLFGIR:
Well book or no book, eden or no eden pleasure and hell. As is wtih most things check the revelations again and you can find alot of mumbling things in the bible that can lead astray, and I did mention that book (still haven´t found the name of it..) is more than just about eden. Alot as I mentioned about Jesus life, the (damn my english, I lack too many words to make this one fly) "problem" with the amount of men that came to get Jesus, is wrong. It says he was collected by fourty men, though the forces name means more or less 400 man supported by a 100 cavelarists and at least four tanks. The thought of the Romans to see Jesus as a no-threat is the point with this little "teaser". Well I have to read and look up some words before I can get back in full to you!

Um, sorry, Wolfgir, but I don't follow this at all. I look forward to your thoughts when you have 'looked up some words', lol!
You do ok, normally, but theological stuff IS more difficult in a language not your own. I can't speak any other language myself, so I can only imagine your frustration.

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WOLFGIR · 09-07-2001, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fljotsdale:
Um, sorry, Wolfgir, but I don't follow this at all. I look forward to your thoughts when you have 'looked up some words', lol!
You do ok, normally, but theological stuff IS more difficult in a language not your own. I can't speak any other language myself, so I can only imagine your frustration.

Indeed, if I could use Swedish so you could understand me, you would beg me to stop!

I haven+t read the english bible. Going through the swedish one was a toll in it self. But I have discussed and researched about it alot. Though we have many theologists (?) here in Sweden so alot of the material has been in Swedish, and I kinda need a momentum when I write so getting into small pits along the way ain´t fun.

------------------

Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

Yorick · 09-07-2001, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WOLFGIR:

Cheers! (Yorrick instead of mate, what do you call a girl in Aussie?)

Depends on the girl and the guy involved. Plenty of younger women like the equality and banter of being called "mate". Some guys call women "love" - mostly older guys though. (Armissael was an exception) . Older Aussie women in certain areas call other women "love", or "pet."

"Sheila" is an ocker term. A deep "Strine" word.

Did this illuminate? Or confound?

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

WOLFGIR · 09-08-2001, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:
Depends on the girl and the guy involved. Plenty of younger women like the equality and banter of being called "mate". Some guys call women "love" - mostly older guys though. (Armissael was an exception) . Older Aussie women in certain areas call other women "love", or "pet."

"Sheila" is an ocker term. A deep "Strine" word.

Did this illuminate? Or confound?

Thanks Yorrick!
When I was in Manchester checking up on my past I heard alot of different names people used to adress each other with. Coolest sofar has to be "duckie" and "love" seems to be a real friendly way as long as the facial expressions suite the name eh?

Yep, youcleared some problems up for me man! Thanks!

------------------

Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits...
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

Fljotsdale · 09-08-2001, 07:09 AM

CONAN! Here is the promised post. Hope it is understandable!

I have expanded on my original reply, and added your extra post at the end. I have not covered that last bit in any depth, though, as I think it may involve a lot of reading!

Text in bold type is from CONAN’s post:

Constant use is made of symbols. I just dont want to admit that it is all symbolism

But the fact is, Conan, that the book itself, as I pointed out, SAYS it is written in signs. Now – do you believe the bible is the word of god or the word of man? If it is merely the word of man, then Revelation is just a work of fiction and can be disregarded.
If the word of god, then if it says it is written in signs, then it IS symbolic. You can’t have it both ways.

I interpret Revelation as a book that is for now a little obscure but something that will become clearer as time gos on. I wonder how many people laughed when they heard the elements of the earth were some day going to melt together..not funny anymore is it.

Again, we cannot take this literally. Even though this is not a quote from Revelation, but from 2 Peter 3:10-13, it is not speaking of a literal heaven and earth. In the first place, it cannot be, because the bible tells us that the literal earth will remain forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4; Psalms 119:90). Secondly, 2 Peter 3:5-7 gives us a very clear indication of what is to be destroyed – the ‘ungodly men’. The verses speak of the ‘earth’ being destroyed at the time of Noah in the flood. Clearly, the literal planet earth was not destroyed, because we still live here. And the writer then goes on to say ‘IN THE SAME WAY the heavens and earth that are now…’ etc. So, just as at the time of Noah a remnant of humanity – Noah’s family – survived and re-established true worship (the ‘heavens’. I can show that in the bible ‘heavens’ often refers to rulership, both heavenly and earthly, if you want me to). So too, at the ‘time of the end’ it is not the physical planet but the ungodly people who will be destroyed so the true worship can again be finally established earthwide.
I could go into a lot of detail on this, but I have written enough epics on bible topics in other threads!

The tribulation will never the less be a period of salvation.

Agreed.

An election out of Isreal will be redeemed 7:1-4 with an inumerable mutitude of Gentiles also. v:9 They are not of the Preisthood,the Church,to which they seem to stand somewhat in the relation of the Levites to the preists under the Mosaic Covenant. Isa.1:9 Rom11:5 Isreals unbeleif is the Gentiles opportunity.

Agreed, I think, though I am not absolutely sure I understand what you are saying. However, since Rev is symbolic, it is not LITERAL ISRAEL, but spiritual Israel, as I mentioned briefly before. It would be helpful to look up these scriptures, I think: Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 5:9,10; Romans 2;10,11, 28,29; Ephesians 3:6; Galatians 3:28. A comparison of these scriptures will show you, I believe, that the ’12 Tribes of Israel’ are actually ‘spiritual Jews’ not literal Jews. One thing worth noting: look at the listing of the heavenly 12 tribes and compare it with the listing in the Old Testament. There are notable differences. Not totally sure of the significance, but it MUST BE significant. Maybe to point up the difference between literal and spiritual? Don’t know.

Remnants.. *Ester*Mordecai*Ezekiel*Daniel*Shadrach*Meshach*Ab ed-negroThere has been remnants of people all along . Why does the 12,000 from each tribe of Isreal bother you? It seems to always come up when talking about Revelation.

Again, Conan, remember Revelation is symbolic. The 12 tribes are not the literal 12 tribes of Israel, but are spiritual Jews. Read Galatians 3:28 again!
Remember – the Jews rejected Jesus. People were to be taken ‘out of all nations, tribes and tongues’, Jew and Gentile alike, to make a ‘kingdom of priests’. The nation Israel was meant to be that kingdom, but it failed to recognise the son of its god, so god took people from the nations to replace them, and allowed their temple to be destroyed.

(To any Jews who may be reading this – no insult intended. Just citing the bible).

Why wouldnt the aspect of the remnant take a grafted form like under Ezra and Nehemiah? Well, it is prophetic and it seems salvation has gone to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. 7:3-4 Please tell me your thoughts on this.

Well, it WAS to the Jews first, wasn’t it? The first believers in Jesus were Jews, and Jesus – the saviour – was a Jew. Jesus was sent to the Jews, not the Gentiles.
This is a topic that needs more than a fast answer, though.
So that will do for now.
I will do my best to answer any questions you might want to ask about anything I have written here.

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09-10-2001, 09:28 AM

Ive run out of A-1 sauce to digest all this meat! Thanks for your answer Fljotsdale

I must read this a couple more times before I can soak it in. Thanks again and your Bible knowledge really shows through!
Conan

Fljotsdale · 09-11-2001, 06:46 AM

Thank YOU for the compliment, Conan! It gives me pleasure to discuss stuff I know about, lol! Makes me look clever!

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09-07-2001, 05:28 PM	#51
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 51 Posts: 3,450	Well book or no book, eden or no eden pleasure and hell. As is wtih most things check the revelations again and you can find alot of mumbling things in the bible that can lead astray, and I did mention that book (still haven´t found the name of it..) is more than just about eden. Alot as I mentioned about Jesus life, the (damn my english, I lack too many words to make this one fly) "problem" with the amount of men that came to get Jesus, is wrong. It says he was collected by fourty men, though the forces name means more or less 400 man supported by a 100 cavelarists and at least four tanks. The thought of the Romans to see Jesus as a no-threat is the point with this little "teaser". Well I have to read and look up some words before I can get back in full to you! ------------------ Be vevvy qwiet..I´m hunting wabbits... Wolfgirs lair once-upon-a-paper

09-08-2001, 07:09 AM	#57
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 88 Posts: 2,859	CONAN! Here is the promised post. Hope it is understandable! I have expanded on my original reply, and added your extra post at the end. I have not covered that last bit in any depth, though, as I think it may involve a lot of reading! Text in bold type is from CONAN’s post: Constant use is made of symbols. I just dont want to admit that it is all symbolism But the fact is, Conan, that the book itself, as I pointed out, SAYS it is written in signs. Now – do you believe the bible is the word of god or the word of man? If it is merely the word of man, then Revelation is just a work of fiction and can be disregarded. If the word of god, then if it says it is written in signs, then it IS symbolic. You can’t have it both ways. I interpret Revelation as a book that is for now a little obscure but something that will become clearer as time gos on. I wonder how many people laughed when they heard the elements of the earth were some day going to melt together..not funny anymore is it. Again, we cannot take this literally. Even though this is not a quote from Revelation, but from 2 Peter 3:10-13, it is not speaking of a literal heaven and earth. In the first place, it cannot be, because the bible tells us that the literal earth will remain forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4; Psalms 119:90). Secondly, 2 Peter 3:5-7 gives us a very clear indication of what is to be destroyed – the ‘ungodly men’. The verses speak of the ‘earth’ being destroyed at the time of Noah in the flood. Clearly, the literal planet earth was not destroyed, because we still live here. And the writer then goes on to say ‘IN THE SAME WAY the heavens and earth that are now…’ etc. So, just as at the time of Noah a remnant of humanity – Noah’s family – survived and re-established true worship (the ‘heavens’. I can show that in the bible ‘heavens’ often refers to rulership, both heavenly and earthly, if you want me to). So too, at the ‘time of the end’ it is not the physical planet but the ungodly people who will be destroyed so the true worship can again be finally established earthwide. I could go into a lot of detail on this, but I have written enough epics on bible topics in other threads! The tribulation will never the less be a period of salvation. Agreed. An election out of Isreal will be redeemed 7:1-4 with an inumerable mutitude of Gentiles also. v:9 They are not of the Preisthood,the Church,to which they seem to stand somewhat in the relation of the Levites to the preists under the Mosaic Covenant. Isa.1:9 Rom11:5 Isreals unbeleif is the Gentiles opportunity. Agreed, I think, though I am not absolutely sure I understand what you are saying. However, since Rev is symbolic, it is not LITERAL ISRAEL, but spiritual Israel, as I mentioned briefly before. It would be helpful to look up these scriptures, I think: Revelation 14:1-4; Revelation 5:9,10; Romans 2;10,11, 28,29; Ephesians 3:6; Galatians 3:28. A comparison of these scriptures will show you, I believe, that the ’12 Tribes of Israel’ are actually ‘spiritual Jews’ not literal Jews. One thing worth noting: look at the listing of the heavenly 12 tribes and compare it with the listing in the Old Testament. There are notable differences. Not totally sure of the significance, but it MUST BE significant. Maybe to point up the difference between literal and spiritual? Don’t know. Remnants.. EsterMordecaiEzekielDanielShadrachMeshach*Ab ed-negroThere has been remnants of people all along . Why does the 12,000 from each tribe of Isreal bother you? It seems to always come up when talking about Revelation. Again, Conan, remember Revelation is symbolic. The 12 tribes are not the literal 12 tribes of Israel, but are spiritual Jews. Read Galatians 3:28 again! Remember – the Jews rejected Jesus. People were to be taken ‘out of all nations, tribes and tongues’, Jew and Gentile alike, to make a ‘kingdom of priests’. The nation Israel was meant to be that kingdom, but it failed to recognise the son of its god, so god took people from the nations to replace them, and allowed their temple to be destroyed. (To any Jews who may be reading this – no insult intended. Just citing the bible). Why wouldnt the aspect of the remnant take a grafted form like under Ezra and Nehemiah? Well, it is prophetic and it seems salvation has gone to the Jew first and then to the Gentile. 7:3-4 Please tell me your thoughts on this. Well, it WAS to the Jews first, wasn’t it? The first believers in Jesus were Jews, and Jesus – the saviour – was a Jew. Jesus was sent to the Jews, not the Gentiles. This is a topic that needs more than a fast answer, though. So that will do for now. I will do my best to answer any questions you might want to ask about anything I have written here. ------------------

09-10-2001, 09:28 AM	#58
Conan Guest Posts: n/a	Ive run out of A-1 sauce to digest all this meat! Thanks for your answer Fljotsdale I must read this a couple more times before I can soak it in. Thanks again and your Bible knowledge really shows through! Conan

09-11-2001, 06:46 AM	#59
Fljotsdale Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Birmingham, West Mid\'s, England Age: 88 Posts: 2,859	Thank YOU for the compliment, Conan! It gives me pleasure to discuss stuff I know about, lol! Makes me look clever! ------------------

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