Don't ask for 'cracked' copies of files here.

Jerry,
Maybe I have just encountered so many liars in my life that I can respect people who tell the truth, even when it may get them into trouble. I've done it myself (told the truth when I didn't have to and have paid dearly for it)...if someone wants to do something "official" about ryu let them if they have the power to, there is nothing I can do to stop it...I was just making an offer to reward the truth with compensation to the company for a copy of the game...its not like others won't be taking advantage of getting a pirated copy, coming to this board to post and swearing that they paid for it.
I am not encouraging anyone to steal, on the contrary. I call it charity in this case and I can't do it for everyone.
You can go back a page and read an apology to the Curries from me for even trying to help someone who was using an illegal version of the game! Well, these posts may make it look like I didn't mean it, but cut ryu some slack for being honest about it and consider what kind of position not just SirTech, but all gaming companies could be in if one person who could stepped up to be charitable for someone who couldn't afford it.
You can argue with me until you are blue in the face, but we are both powerless to change the world, we can only make a difference and you are right, what comes around goes around. I would much rather have a future of charitable occurrences than a future full of sorrowful ones for whatever reasons.

If you need to know, I've had plenty stolen from me...things I have made and/or paid for, things that friends have made or paid for, gifts from my grandmother, my dad...the list goes on and the thieves were people posing as my friends and in some cases were even closely related to me, like in my mother, my sister, my brother...all I have to do is wake up alive and its a good day...material goods are nice but they are not what life is all about.

I hope you can try to understand my point of view...I don't have the cash to bail Sir-Tech out but in this one case, I can make a difference and if you feel that is wrong I don't know what to say.

[Jerry Austin]

Theres nothing wrong with what your doing.
This is like beating a dead horse...lol.
You or i cant change it.(well actually....oh hell i dont feel like going into it).
In all realism in todays world its the charitable good hearted people that can and do make a difference in life.
Well im done ranting and raving...

[Gilrad]

quote:

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Why should I bother showing you a flaw in your logic, when I was digging for emotional justifications, not flaws? And what makes you think I would ever act the missionary, even if I think your just ducking the issue?

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It was merely a question, as people have a habit of turning a question into a demand, sometimes without noticing it, sometimes from the beginning, without noticing it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Goumindong:
OH, and Gil the difference between boycotts and pirating is this... when you boycott the store loses your BUSINESS, when you pirate, the company loses its PRODUCT.

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Exactly my point. Although the businesses are only there to make profit, and nothing else, they ARE the only window to aquire the games that I buy.

[quote]now... what you said about being different is not genius(different) but a pathetic attempt to justify your lack of morals. being different for the sake of being different is the same as being the same for the sake of being the same.[quote]
I never said I was different, did I? And a lack of morals? I must agree, that if I didn't belive my words, and were only trying to save my skin, then I would be rather disgusted with myself right now, but all my words are from my heard, what I belive, and if you can't belive that there is a person living in this world with such strong morals, yet intentually breaks the law, then mabye you should look up the word 'Civil Disobedience'.

[quote]Did you know that school is media... would you forgo your education? those mainstream thoughts that have proven themselves over time. Did you know that its mainstream to be anit-mainstream. That you would join the MINORITY by being a moral person?[/QUOTE
If it weren't for such meaningless titles such as GED, and Master's Degree, then I would split school in a second. You talk as if School is the only source of education, which is definately not true. People who stop learning in life, go nowhere in life, neither socially, nor personally. As for inside school, there are only a few teachers in my school who think beyond the books, who's one purpose isn't to teach you everything in the cirriculum, and I suffer the rest of the school for those classes.

Now this is fun. I haven't had this much of a challenge to my mind in a while.

[Scronan]

Hi,

Quite a thread that has been started here, lots of different viewpoints and I'm staying out of them and remaining neutral about this. But I need to mention a few things before this turns into a Magma Bomb flame war:

1. Ryu - Please, for your own safety, STOP talking about the pirated copy of the game you have on this board! I have already sent you a private email voicing my thoughts about it, and yet I still see you talking about it here. This thread needs to go off this board with those involved via email if it concerns you that much. This is not the place for such a discussion!

2. The rest of you folks - sounds like a lot of you have things to say that are important to you, but please do not let this get out of hand. I'm seeing lots of opposing viewpoints and such discussions can be good, but keep it civil ok?

3. I'm getting tired of saying this, so I will say it one last time:

STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR &*@!@#!!*& PIRATED COPIES OF WIZARDRY 8 AND OTHER GAMES. THIS IS THE WRONG PLACE TO BE TALKING ABOUT IT!

I'm not here to judge anyone or tell you what is right from wrong. That is your choice and you are free to believe and do whatever you wish, just don't talk about it here, ok?

So, keep it clean folks, if not then I'll have to stop this thread.

Best

Scronan

Moderator

[Ziroc]

As I stated, Ironworks will NOT support ANYONE with a Pirated copy of the game. ANY game. That one guy that says he's 'poor' but has a PC, and an Internet connection. Bullshit. You are ripping off the Producer of the game, and Sirtech was basiclly out of business as it is. They DESERVE every penny guys.. I will BAN anyone that discuses pirated copies from now on.

I am a game developer as well, so I KNOW how it feels to be ripped off. it sucks, and it hurts.

Thanks, (rant off)

[Gilrad]

Can we discuss the morals of it, then? Possibly it's just me, but emails tend to feel a tad impersonal to me... Nothing like forums for communication.
Or how about just how I may not be strongly by my views? I barely ever get the chance to discuss this deeply, and to see another person's view I think is something I wouldn't want to pass up easily.

[Goumindong]

well, first off... Civil Disobediance and theft are two different things. Take the first word for exapmle, civil, theft is not civil. cCivil disobediance implies a few things , one, that the ones participation are doing it for the moral high ground, to express what is right, no person went and got some slaves to make the point that slavery was bad... what you are doing is a disgrace to this form of protest. Two, you need a moral point you are trying to make. Im sorry, but make better games is not a moral point... i dont liek the news is not a moral point... i want to be myself, even though our brains are not physicaly capable of doing so is not a moral point.

Theft is not civil disobediance, Boycott square if you have to, but if you play their games (stolen or not) you suport them, they just dont get their dues, because you are a thief

as for school... you dont have to go to high school to get your GED, that is a paper saying you are smart enough to get a diploma. If the titles are meaningless, why do you strive for one? I was talking about a "proven" formal education. The human brain at most stages is not capable of not learning.

you shun media and wish this conversation to continue on the forum? what do you think a forum is... it isnt just a place in Rome ill tell you that.

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

I don't quite get the argument that mainstreamism is wrong, and it is right to rebel against as an excuse to pirate software.

Whatever floats your boat. The easiest way to understand that pirating equals theft, is that you are technically stealing money from a developer,programmer, production company, etc.

If I don't want to pay full price for a game, do what I do. I will just wait till it either goes on sale, or is relegated to the bargin bin. I have bought so many games this way. Discounted, but paid for.

Ethnically pirating is wrong. Morally, I am not the one to judge that.

[Gilrad]

"well, first off... Civil Disobediance and theft are two different things. Take the first word for exapmle, civil, theft is not civil."
The fact that I am preventing a company from getting money that normally would have came at the expense of other people, however, is.
"cCivil disobediance implies a few things , one, that the ones participation are doing it for the moral high ground, to express what is right, no person went and got some slaves to make the point that slavery was bad..."
And if you would understand what I was writing above (possibly my fault... I am not the best at discribing such abstract concepts), I belive that companies who's sole purpose is to influence people's minds for their profit, their actions are dehumanising all who they target.
"what you are doing is a disgrace to this form of protest. Two, you need a moral point you are trying to make. Im sorry, but make better games is not a moral point..."
Now that would be a stupid point, wouldn't it? No. Companies who make bad games state that they are in for the profit, and therefore do not have a true reason to make games. If they were to all the sudden make better games, they would most likely still be in for the profit.
"i dont liek the news is not a moral point... i want to be myself, even though our brains are not physicaly capable of doing so is not a moral point."
When I say media, I dont just mean the news. Commercials, sponsors, everything sports stand for, they are all based on changing the views on as many people's minds as they can for their profit. The news has nothing to do with it; news is merely ment to inform you.

"Theft is not civil disobediance, Boycott square if you have to, but if you play their games (stolen or not) you suport them, they just dont get their dues, because you are a thief"
Again, if anything, I play the game to spite the company. This is clearly a hipothetical situation, but just imagine that you hear on the news that chikiquta banannas were picked from Africa using slave labor. What I am doing would be more or less the same as stealing a bananna from the store, and stomping on it when I get outside.
"as for school... you dont have to go to high school to get your GED, that is a paper saying you are smart enough to get a diploma. If the titles are meaningless, why do you strive for one?"
Again as I said earlier, there are still some reasons to go to school. A few of the teachers of my school not only teach you their cirriculum (in and outside of the book), but also that the book isn't the bible in that sense, and is not alwayse true, no matter what. And I need the titles, because I would rather start making a living off what I do within five years, than spend the next twenty going up the porverbial ladder of success. That would be fifteen less years of obligitory work.
"I was talking about a "proven" formal education. The human brain at most stages is not capable of not learning."
I belive that the moment someone stops their search for knowledge, they are either physically dead, or emotionally dead. They get so emmersed in distractions such as TV, that most of their lives are made up of distractions and obligations. Those are the types of people who will say, on their death bead, that they have not truely lived life.
"you shun media and wish this conversation to continue on the forum? what do you think a forum is... it isnt just a place in Rome ill tell you that."
What this forum is, is an exchange of knowledge. It isn't being forced apon the readers (It doesn't even have a banner!), they aren't attempting to make the people belive what the moderators and admins want them to belive, and they certainly aren't making any money from it. It is an exchange of knowledge, ideas, and opinions. Much like this conversation is.

As for why mainstream is so bad? I will break it into bite-sized chunks for you [img]smile.gif[/img]
You see somebody model their life after someone on TV, be it a sports star, music star, a fictional character, or even just the majority of the people around him in general. Whatever clothes that person wears, he wears them. Whatever passtimes that person likes, he likes them. Now what has happened to that person? He has become a puppet. The role model could then start making money off of that one person by making that person buy every single luxury in life. What happens when the puppet starts to feel incomplete, then? If one person doesn't satisfy his needs, he starts modelling his life after another person. Why would he not be happy for long? because he has lost his freedom of thought. He no longer can think for himself, and so needs someone--anyone--to think for him. He, too, will die knowing he have not truely lived life.

[KHaN]

I've been reading this thread and thought I'd TRY and make a point or three.

First...sites that support or distribute pirated software lose their ISP (as it should be)and sometimes can face legal ramifications. Ziroc could get in trouble for having people on this forum giving a nod to owning pirated software. So it does need to stop. Emails are the perfect way to do this because it stays off IW. If you have any respect for this site you will stop discussing it now and take it off-site.

Okay so I only had one point to make.

If anyone needs clarification as to what I'm talking about e-mail me.
Pirating software is a CRIME folks. Lets not discuss it on a public forum like Ironworks.

Thanks