Rogue talent review

[Ivelliis]

I disagree burnzey. You ambush a mage, what's the first thing they do? Nova, of course. You might have took 1k health off them, but you're rooted to the spot.

Now, if you cheap shot, they're stunned for 4s. Stunned meaning you can attack them (unlike disorient, like gouge).

Perhaps it's different at level 60 (which I assume you're at)

[quote]My rogue style: Distract player so they face other direction, ambush crit for 1000 - 1300, initiative spec should give me 2 combo's instead of one, sinister strike for another combo, gouge for combo, backstab for combo, cold blood for 100% crit chance, eviscrate for a 1k crit and dead.[quote]

So let me get this straight:

100 Energy: Just before energy ticks, ambush.
60 Energy: Sinister Strike
20 Energy: You have to wait two energy ticks before you can gouge, which is a good 3 seconds max.
60 Energy: Gouge
Four seconds to recover 40 energy
60 Energy: Backstab
40 energy: evis

Fast yes, but that gap between the SS and the gouge could be fatal. A mage could nova, a warlock could fear, a hunter could feign/freeze.

With my stunlock-esque I always have just enough energy. As I'm fighting people with nearly 2k health (having a measly 1.2k, at level 29, myself), and having a pretty crappy dagger, I've resorted to sinister strike as my main damage (got a good sword-quest-reward *beams*)

[SpiritWarrior]

Vanish removes snares you know...so when they nova you vanish and sprint. They will be in the process of casting their frostbolt at you and will be temporarily confused as to your location. The sprint is in case they use their blink but usually they've already used it after nova to gain some distance.

Cheap shot is definately not PVE stuff since it can mean alliance cap the flag or they don't cap the flag (stunned while we get theirs and run with it). Plus, cheap shot adds 2 combo points...I am a dagger rogue but I have learned to never underestimate any skill and its uses. Avoid buying into "sword and dagger rogue only" abilities. My eviscerate still crits something merciless even with daggers in the main hand. I usually use my ambush when I can of course but many times in warsong it is hard to be behind the target when they're running across the field in catform. Everey milisecond counts. That's when you CS from front and KS with extra combos.

[ 07-29-2006, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: SpiritWarrior ]

[Ivelliis]

I know Vanish removes snares, but the 5min timer is a bit of a pain.

Yes if a mage novas you, vanish sprint to catch them up, but frost armor is a pain. Best thing I can do when someone steals our flag is run to their base and stealth, when they run over me cheapshot, enough to give our team time to catch up.

[SpiritWarrior]

That's when I blind them. Blind works great when I know a mage has me stuck. Use that time to bandage. I suppose the new sprint will be good to break snares too. I am prep. so have 2 vanishes. Try run them into walls and corridors, inside a base or against rocks and cliffs by the GY. This way, they can only blink in one direction and that is always the direction they're facing. Also if you're lucky blink won't work for them when they try to do it over transitory terrain. It's a bug the same way our Vanish sometimes doesn't work.

Exactly what I mean about CS, it buys precious time. Also, Sap is excellent if someone has ninja'd the flag since you can do it from any angle. I have imp. sap so can do it even if he has whole team with him. All it takes is the FC to be outta combat even if his support isn't. Even without imp sap. you still bought time if you don't touch him.

[Zink Whistlefly]

[quote]Originally posted by Ivelliis:
I disagree burnzey. You ambush a mage, what's the first thing they do? Nova, of course. You might have took 1k health off them, but you're rooted to the spot.

Now, if you cheap shot, they're stunned for 4s. Stunned meaning you can attack them (unlike disorient, like gouge).

Perhaps it's different at level 60 (which I assume you're at)

[quote]My rogue style: Distract player so they face other direction, ambush crit for 1000 - 1300, initiative spec should give me 2 combo's instead of one, sinister strike for another combo, gouge for combo, backstab for combo, cold blood for 100% crit chance, eviscrate for a 1k crit and dead.

So let me get this straight: 100 Energy: Just before energy ticks, ambush. 60 Energy: Sinister Strike 20 Energy: You have to wait two energy ticks before you can gouge, which is a good 3 seconds max. 60 Energy: Gouge Four seconds to recover 40 energy 60 Energy: Backstab 40 energy: evis Fast yes, but that gap between the SS and the gouge could be fatal. A mage could nova, a warlock could fear, a hunter could feign/freeze. With my stunlock-esque I always have just enough energy. As I'm fighting people with nearly 2k health (having a measly 1.2k, at level 29, myself), and having a pretty crappy dagger, I've resorted to sinister strike as my main damage (got a good sword-quest-reward *beams*)

Nice energy calcs Ivelliis but there should really be Distract at the top. 30 energy, and if you're going to do this in PvP to get the right angle for your opener, you will have to be very quick indeed, and therefore will not have recovered the full 30 energy before the target has reacted and moved again. One tick is probably sufficient but that gives you 90 starting energy for that combination and will mean the first tick after the ambush has been performed will not be instantaneous as it would be with 100 energy and a fresh tick cycle.

If I'm trying to kill someone as quickly as possible in PvP, I tend to do more damage with a crit ambush (improved ambush for base crit + 45% so more likely than not) that I can do in 4 seconds of white damage from CS + backstab/sinister strikes. Generally that's 100 energy for the CS, tick, BS (zero energy) and then you need 2 more full ticks before you can SS again in which time the target will have recovered. Of course, you can just about time that right to get off a 4 combo point Kidney Shot (provided you are specced for initiative to get 3 for the opener) which gives you a further 4 seconds of white damage + one more combo point generator. This generally works very well against casters as they can't do jack, especially if you conserve your energy whilst they are in the KS and then position yourself around the front ready for the gouge when the KS expires. That's potentially a further 5.5 seconds of energy regen which should be plenty to pull off another BS and then mash eviscerate eviscerate. But all that will most likely still leave your target standing. A crit ambush opener (2 points, around 1000 damage if I'm lucky at the moment) followed immediately by a backstab (which you should be able to do before they react and turn around, 3 points, and anywhere from 250-650 damage depending if it's crit or not and whether you use lethality/opportunity), then it's probably being on the receiving end of a DC, PS etc so you'll probably have to bite the bullet for a few seconds, but even if they've loaded you up with DoT's, hitting sprint and then spamming SS a couple of times to get 5 combo points is enough for a cold blood eviscerate which will most likely spell game over.

Generally I have a hard time with Warlocks - I level along side a mate who is a 49 Undead Warlock at the moment. Normally he can beat me in duels, but if I blow all my cooldowns I can generally take him down (twice in a row as I am also prep based) but after that I'm toast. My stealth is almost useless against him if he has the Fellhunter thingy out (even though I have effectively +4 levels to stealth), so I end up actually opening the fight with a rather extreme: blind (this lets me control the fight from the start rather than him instantly firing a death coil at me and then loading me up with DoT's and then a fear spell which will undoubtedly nail my arse to the fence). That then allows for Vanish -> CS -> Evasion (to keep the pet at bay) -> BS (zero energy) -> Thistle Tea -> Backstab (should just have time for this) -> 5 CP Eviscerate. That normally ends it, and if not a couple of seconds of white damage + a sinister strike or two almost certainly will!

I feel like I've waffled on for ages now without having much point to my post...oh dear!

[Zink Whistlefly]

Originally posted by SpiritWarrior: That's when I blind them. Blind works great when I know a mage has me stuck. Use that time to bandage. I suppose the new sprint will be good to break snares too. I am prep. so have 2 vanishes. Try run them into walls and corridors, inside a base or against rocks and cliffs by the GY. This way, they can only blink in one direction and that is always the direction they're facing. Also if you're lucky blink won't work for them when they try to do it over transitory terrain. It's a bug the same way our Vanish sometimes doesn't work. Exactly what I mean about CS, it buys precious time. Also, Sap is excellent if someone has ninja'd the flag since you can do it from any angle. I have imp. sap so can do it even if he has whole team with him. All it takes is the FC to be outta combat even if his support isn't. Even without imp sap. you still bought time if you don't touch him.

I'm with ya there with Sap SW, although that might not work as well as expected if there's any form of DoT on the flag carrier. I always seem to suffer from lag in the BG meaning that even when I'm on top of some enemies my attacks say "out of range" which makes me almost completely useless (Hunters and casters shouldn't have this problem!). Most reliable method of stopping them dead for me therefore is with a Blind as that is much more forgiving than Sap as it gives you a little range. Same issue with the DoT though

[Ivelliis]

I think it's the same for most people, Zink. I have to run a bit in front of the FC to be able to backstab/hit in any way.

Distract is another favourite with flagcarriers, as soon as I get close I cast it, they spin, and I stealth/cs as fast as physically possible.

[SpiritWarrior]

Yep all rogues do. I have to be 3 steps in front of the FC also and I have to be mashing the Sap button in the hopes that I will be in a the general area of my target as far as the game is concerned. These are issues that all rogues have in PvP.

[Hivetyrant]

Same here.
Being in Australia, our latency is (almost) never below 200 and as fun as BG's can be, its quite difficult to play a rogue as well as I would like, though I do manage to do pretty well.

Sap is extremely handy I have found when it comes to WSG and flag carriers

[burnzey boi]

Cheap shot dissapears from mage when blinked.