Is spanking a child inappropriate? (opinions)

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Skunk: Question: Why are the kids resorting to tearing up the house to get a bit of attention from their parents? Poor souls - seems to me that they prefer getting beaten to being left alone in front of the TV. Guess that I can't blame 'em for their 'bad' behaviour. As for where you draw the line, - you draw the line every time that they do something wrong. I've never assaulted my child; never needed to. But then maybe my wife and I take the time to point out the *why* something is wrong or point out how they would feel if 'X' was done to them. Teach the kids the social rules, teach the kids the rules that society requires you to live by. Explain everything - don't just say 'do this, do that' - give reasons. At an early age, explanations for 'why X is not allowed' are accepted, and kids generally don't do 'X' again - and if they do, then 'sanctions' like making them sit in the hallway/bedroom for an hour are enough to reinforce the message. By the time the child reaches the age where those sanctions wouldn't normally work, it doesn't matter: because by then, most kids won't need the sanctions - because they'll be doing the right thing all by themselves. The only thing a good smack teaches a child is: "Don't get caught" SMACKING IS THE TOOL OF THE LAZY PARENT.

Well, Skunk, you're entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to the opinion that your posts in this thread have been some of the most sactimonious and condescending I've ever seen here.

You go on and on about how the children of parents who spank are only misbehaving because the parents aren't spending any time with them and the children are being ignored.

So what is your solution to a misdeed by your child? Stick them in their room or hallway by themselves for up to an hour OR "remove almost every privilege that makes life worth living" for as long as 4 weeks!!!!

We both punish our children how we see fit. The only difference is that I sometimes choose physical punishment while you consistently choose to use emotional punishment.

When one of my children misbehave, they may or may not get a spanking (depending on what they did). But for the sake of argument, we'll say that I smack them on the butt for whatever they did. Yes, they get upset and cry and go stomping off to their room, but guess what....30 minutes later they are over it. I've gone into their room to discuss WHY they were spanked (it is always because they broke a rule they knew they shouldn't), told them I expect them to behave differently and given them a hug.

Meanwhile, 30 minutes after your child has misbehaved, they are only halfway through their punishment.

At least with the physical punishment, it is over and done with and the child and parent can move on. The emotional punishment takes a lot longer to impose and (IMHO) can have JUST as many detrimental side-effects (if not more) as physical punishment.

[Timber Loftis]

Skunk and Cerek, as I said, I think a proper mix of "loss of freedom" and "physical" punishment, each with a decent smattering of embarrassment every now and then, is best. I like Paladin's post above. Like him, I was spanked, and I'm no mass murderer or anything. I've never seen a shrink, I got over my problems with my parents shortly after college, and I am seemingly reasonably well-adjusted from what I can discern.

I think the whole non-violence movement in the western world is way out of control. Some of the best things that I've seen happen to kids have included getting the crap beat out of them by fellow kids, getting paddled in front of the whole class at school, and getting a good smack in the mouth to stymie them while they were abusing the "people are watching" factor in a public place.

I think we've gotten too namby-pamby. In our fear that every parent will end up abusive, we've neutered what parenting is meant to be.

Skunk, the "lazy parenting" part is quite offensive. Most of the lazy parents I've seen never hit their kids, but rather let them annoy the piss out of the rest of us. I don't know about other parents on here, but you've insulted my parents, and you've insulted me based on what I intend to be like as a parent. If there is anything I am not, and my parents are not, it is lazy. In fact, hard work is the one virtue we all extol above all others. I ask you not repeat the sentiment again.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Johnny - You are absolutely SPOT ON about most people changing their attitudes when they become parents themselves. I can't tell you how many times I've "eaten my words" regarding things I said I would NEVER allow my kids to do or that I would never do as a parent.

I have lost my temper with my boys before - even though I once swore that would never happen. I have also whipped them or yelled at them when I lost my temper. However, I have always gone back to them on those occasions and apologized to them and told them that "Daddy was wrong" to lose his temper, even though they were misbehaving.

I don't make excuses when the fault was mine. I admit that I was wrong. I do remind them that they shouldn't have been doing whatever they did to make me lose my temper in the first place, but I also let them know that I shouldn't have reacted the way I did.

As time has gone on, I find that I don't have to spank my children very much anymore. If absolutely nothing else will work, I find that just the threat of a spanking is usually sufficient to correct their behavior now.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Skunk and Cerek, as I said, I think a proper mix of "loss of freedom" and "physical" punishment, each with a decent smattering of embarrassment every now and then, is best. I like Paladin's post above. Like him, I was spanked, and I'm no mass murderer or anything. I've never seen a shrink, I got over my problems with my parents shortly after college, and I am seemingly reasonably well-adjusted from what I can discern. I think the whole non-violence movement in the western world is way out of control. Some of the best things that I've seen happen to kids have included getting the crap beat out of them by fellow kids, getting paddled in front of the whole class at school, and getting a good smack in the mouth to stymie them while they were abusing the "people are watching" factor in a public place. I think we've gotten too namby-pamby. In our fear that every parent will end up abusive, we've neutered what parenting is meant to be. Skunk, the "lazy parenting" part is quite offensive. Most of the lazy parents I've seen never hit their kids, but rather let them annoy the piss out of the rest of us. I don't know about other parents on here, but you've insulted my parents, and you've insulted me based on what I intend to be like as a parent. If there is anything I am not, and my parents are not, it is lazy. In fact, hard work is the one virtue we all extol above all others. I ask you not repeat the sentiment again.

Timber, my man, I couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the biggest problems parents - and especially teachers - face in today's society.

I remember getting taken into the hallway or up to the front of the room for a spanking. Even in the hallway, the "embarassment factor" was still there, because it echoed up and down the halls and everybody knew that somebody had just got a spanking. And going to the "Principal's Office" was the ultimate threat.

My mother recently retired after working 26 years as an office manager for a mental health facility. It was a "psycho hospital", just a small office with several counselors available to meet the needs of the community.

Every one of the counselors firmly embraced the "Do NOT spank the child for ANY reason" and you know what happened....their kids were some of the most "out of control" little hellions you will ever meet. Admittedly, some were not nearly as bad as others, but a few of them were some of the rudest, most disrespectful kids I ever met. Why? Because they were NEVER PUNISHED for doing anything wrong. The parents tried the "Sit them down and talk to them routine", but when the kids got older, they basically told their parents to "F*** Off", and STILL didn't get punished for it.

Kids have to respect their parents and other kids, and sometimes that respect has to be taught through hard lessons.

I agree that a good "mix" of punishments is the most appropriate. And as my boys get older, I find that I don't have to spank them nearly as often (although the middle one has an extremely stubborn streak in him [img]graemlins/dontknowaboutyou.gif[/img] ). I'm afraid he gets spanked far more often than his brother, only because that is sometimes the ONLY way to make him stop what he is doing.

His older brother is the whiner, but he has quickly learned that my wife and I will NOT tolerate that. He is told that whining is not the way to get what he wants and he loses privileges immediately if he persists.

This "mix" usually works pretty well and we are always told by other people how well-behaved our children are. [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img] I sometimes have to ask if we're talking about the same child, but they assure me we are. The thing is, kids will "push" thier parents a LOT farther than they will a babysitter, or Sunday-school teacher, or any other adult that has to "watch" them for a period of time. So my wife and I take comfort in the fact that they are learning the lessons we want them to. We just wish they would practice them more often when they're home. [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img]

[Cloudbringer]

I'm just going to toss this in- we had a twelve page discussion of this topic a while back. Should you smack your children?

If you refer to it, please refrain from insulting or comments about opinions expressed there, as some of the participants may not frequent this board or be around to debate or defend their comments on the old thread.

Also, please keep in mind that opinions are just that, a person's opinons. Yours may differ and you don't 'win' anything by bashing another person because they disagree.

[ 08-11-2003, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

[Timber Loftis]

Damn Cloudy. That thread brings out a lot of old faces that I certainly miss seeing these days. Is IWF shrinking????

[Cloudbringer]

Not that I'd say, TL. Forums have highs and lows at different times of the year. Summer can be really busy or very light and often that goes in cycles.

[Skunk]

At least with the physical punishment, it is over and done with and the child and parent can move on. The emotional punishment takes a lot longer to impose and (IMHO) can have JUST as many detrimental side-effects (if not more) as physical punishment.

I guess that, if you were caught speeding, you wouldn't mind if the cop just slapped you around a bit - rather than hand you a speeding ticket? Kids work out (all by themselves) what is and is not fair in life - and behave/react accordingly.

I seen the nastiest little monsters on the block - who go home every night to 'enjoy' a whipping with a belt - it makes no difference to them. In fact, it's simply considered an 'occupational hazard' that comes with getting caught: as far as they are concerned, the bad act was not what they did, it was being dumb enough to get caught.

So what's going wrong with these little angels?

I have seen a lot of good kids - some who received corporal punishment and some never had a hand laid on them. All had one thing in common: good, solid and consistent parenting from an early age; parenting that involves taking the time to explain things to their kids.

When things go wrong, then 99% its the parents who were at fault - and maybe someone should be slapping them around!

[Timber Loftis]

Funny, I always get a slapping around AND a ticket. Guess it's my big damned mouth.

Skunk, even in advocating corporal punish, in my first post I mentioned that the greatest import should be placed on rationally explaining to the kids what they did wrong, and why they are being punished.

[Faceman]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Even in advocating corporal punish, in my first post I mentioned that the greatest import should be placed on rationally explaining to the kids what they did wrong, and why they are being punished.

True!
Hitting a child mostly causes emotional wounds when it happens unexplained and/or suddenly. Same can go for emotional punishment.
Although I basically do not advocate spanking I am convinced that if you don't explain your action and ground your kid for a month you do more damage than if you discuss his misbehavior and slap him/her.