Mistakes in Films...

[Ilander]

I dunno...as a SW fan, I have to say that those lines lend a subtle humor to it all, and amuse me a heck of a lot more than the dread JJ ever did....

Regardless, though, I have to say that the "first" trilogy has merit...but to say that it is more political than the first trilogy is folly...seriously, a revolution is going on, people! It's NOT an action movie, its about the common people rising up and throwing off the yoke...seriously, if you don't think that the first trilogy had political drama, you haven't done your homework....

The ENTIRE time that trilogy is going on, in the background, the Rebellion is spreading from planet to planet. The leaders must find support however they can, and have to win decisive battles, and look like they have a chance to win before they can get the help TO win the war. Watch the non-human population in the Rebellion, for instance...it steadily grows, incorpoating the Sullustans, the Bothans, the Mon Calamari...the list goes on and on...

Oh, and let's not also forget the obvious injustices that the Imperials have inflicted on the galaxy in a purely political way...for instance, Xizor is basically given all the power that the Black Sun needs BY THE EMPIRE and its corrupt politics. Jabba the Hutt is not ignored for no reason.

One last thing...to call these movies just a collections of chases and battles is a misrepresentation...they represent the battle between good and evil, within and without, and while that's not a new story, it's one that should be retold....

[Timber Loftis]

Ilander, you're incorporating a lot of stuff that is backstory into the original trilogy. Stuff that is not evident in the movies. Stuff that was made up after the fact. All of the Xizor stuff comes from Shadows of the Empire, which occurs during the 4-month (IIRC) time period between Empire and Jedi, and none of which is reflected in the movies themselves.

[Ilander]

Yes, I am doing that...but the story is all of that...I don't think Lucas ever inteded for the tale to be so one dimensional as to only be in the movies...he wanted a full universe, fully fleshed out, and that's as much a part of the SW experience as anything else...

[Bozos of Bones]

*waiting to see how long does it take for people to realise they're off-topic*
For me, it's not at all philosophical: ALL STAR WARS MOVIES ARE GREAT!
IMHO

[Dron_Cah]

Though I'm totally behind Ilander, I must say, I concur with Bozos, as well.

[Oblivion437]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Oh, and "It's not my fault" is used almost as many times as "I have a bad feeling about this."

"It's not my fault!" and "I have a bad feeling about this" only really mean something if you've seen them all. Their employment is wholly an inside joke.

Half of what makes the original trilogy better comes from various things, the other half is relatively simple:

It wasn't overtly political
It didn't let the characterization get in the way of events

Following these two key elements of great Western film spectacle, Lucas achieved something he's second-fiddling to now.

The first half is a number of things:

Better actors (Liam Neeson is the only actor in the new trilogy on the level of Harrison Ford, if Gangs of New York or Nell had come out the same year as The Phantom Menace, I'd recomend either of those over it, as he was the best thing in the film, and those two had something else to recommend them as well)

Not being overly reliant on dialogue (a key of the great spectacle)
Not relying too much on actors (something Lucas also inherited from Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress, which is a highly visual film)

Better editing

Knowing when to end a damn scene, and move onto the next one

Respecting an audience's intelligence enough to let them assemble the jigsaw of the plot off screen, while enjoying the visuals more (this kept the films under 3 hour running times)

The problem with The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones is the overt attempt to be a political thriller. But much of what makes that genre work is as dead as Disco. It's also limited to the fact that the films are smaller. They lack the same untouchable ambition.

Besides that, Episode V is easily the most adult film of them all, complicated, morally uncertain, and very serious stuff, naturally Lucas didn't direct it.

[Stormymystic]

I just rewatched The two towers, and saw something I had not seen before....when Gandalf is walking into theodens chambers, after the lost their weapons, watch closely, when the camera goes behind Gandalf, his staff is in one postion, when the camera goes in front, the staff is held in a very different postion, lol....

[SixOfSpades]

The problem with the Star Wars films is that while Lucas's audience keeps getting older and older (and more intellectually demanding), he keeps gearing the movies to a target audience that's getting younger and younger. The first real red flag of danger was when he decided to populate Endor with Ewoks instead of the Wookiees he'd originally intended. ("Hey look! Not only do we save on costuming because they're half the size, but they're much cuter and oh-so-much more marketable!") As this trend continues, we viewers see the franchise reduced to little more than a special effects budget draped over a plot that's thinner than most elementary-school plays.

The moment that sums up the recent SW flicks for me: After Anakin (ACCIDENTALLY!) destroys the remote-AI satellite, the entire battlefield of droids comes to a dead stop. JarJar goes up to one, says, "Dey all boken!" and slaps it--AND ITS HEAD FALLS OFF. What, are they all held together by electromagnets or something?!? ("Hey, boss! I got a great idea! We'll call 'em Snap-Tite Droids!")

And yet, even after suffering through Episode I: Steaming Crap on a Stick, I actually went and saw Episode 2. I snuck in, of course, there's no way in hell I'd pay money for that thing. I can sum up its good points as follows:
1. Natalie Portman's a babe.
2. The beasts in the battle arena made some really good sounds. Props to the Foley people.
3. A spaceship is shot down, crashes back to earth, and DOES NOT explode.
That's it. The rest of the film was essentially raw sewage. Poor Ewan, he's actually a decent actor in his other stuff.


But this thread is about movie mishappery in general:
http://www.geocities.com/sixospades/matrix.htm

[Oblivion437]

Plus, it lacked Liam Neeson.

[Timber Loftis]

Just to beat the dead horse a bit more, here's my rating of the SW flicks, best to least best:

Empire
Episode IV
AotC
Phantom (better than Jedi due to effects and light sabre battles)
Jedi (I vote that all gungans be given ewok suppositories and that we just leave them to die together)