Fallout from the Pledge

[Chewbacca]

Um Cerek did you look around that web site? click on any of the links?
The Black Panthers, as an orginization, did not commit murder, robbery or rape. Their original name was "The Black Panther Self defense party"

Ironic that this motion was adopted by all sorts of groups who disagreed with the vietnam war, the panthers also coined the phrase "Power to the people". look how far that went....

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

The Ten Point Plan (the Black Panther Charter)
WE WANT FREEDOM. WE WANT POWER TO DETERMINE THE DESTINY OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.
We believe that Black and oppressed people will not be free until we are able to determine our destinies in our own communities ourselves, by fully controlling all the institutions which exist in our communities.

WE WANT FULL EMPLOYMENT FOR OUR PEOPLE.
We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every person employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the American businessmen will not give full employment, then the technology and means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living.

WE WANT AN END TO THE ROBBERY BY THE CAPITALISTS OF OUR BLACK AND OPPRESSED COMMUNITIES.
We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules were promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of Black people. We will accept the payment in currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of our fifty million Black people. Therefore, we feel this is a modest demand that we make.

WE WANT DECENT HOUSING, FIT FOR THE SHELTER OF HUMAN BEINGS.
We believe that if the landlords will not give decent housing to our Black and oppressed communities, then housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that the people in our communities, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for the people.

WE WANT DECENT EDUCATION FOR OUR PEOPLE THAT EXPOSES THE TRUE NATURE OF THIS DECADENT AMERICAN SOCIETY. WE WANT EDUCATION THAT TEACHES US OUR TRUE HISTORY AND OUR ROLE IN THE PRESENT-DAY SOCIETY.
We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of the self. If you do not have knowledge of yourself and your position in the society and in the world, then you will have little chance to know anything else.

WE WANT COMPLETELY FREE HEALTH CARE FOR All BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE.
We believe that the government must provide, free of charge, for the people, health facilities which will not only treat our illnesses, most of which have come about as a result of our oppression, but which will also develop preventive medical programs to guarantee our future survival. We believe that mass health education and research programs must be developed to give all Black and oppressed people access to advanced scientific and medical information, so we may provide our selves with proper medical attention and care.

WE WANT AN IMMEDIATE END TO POLICE BRUTALITY AND MURDER OF BLACK PEOPLE, OTHER PEOPLE OF COLOR, All OPPRESSED PEOPLE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES.
We believe that the racist and fascist government of the United States uses its domestic enforcement agencies to carry out its program of oppression against black people, other people of color and poor people inside the united States. We believe it is our right, therefore, to defend ourselves against such armed forces and that all Black and oppressed people should be armed for self defense of our homes and communities against these fascist police forces.

WE WANT AN IMMEDIATE END TO ALL WARS OF AGGRESSION.
We believe that the various conflicts which exist around the world stem directly from the aggressive desire of the United States ruling circle and government to force its domination upon the oppressed people of the world. We believe that if the United States government or its lackeys do not cease these aggressive wars it is the right of the people to defend themselves by any means necessary against their aggressors.

WE WANT FREEDOM FOR ALL BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE NOW HELD IN U. S. FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY AND MILITARY PRISONS AND JAILS. WE WANT TRIALS BY A JURY OF PEERS FOR All PERSONS CHARGED WITH SO-CALLED CRIMES UNDER THE LAWS OF THIS COUNTRY.
We believe that the many Black and poor oppressed people now held in United States prisons and jails have not received fair and impartial trials under a racist and fascist judicial system and should be free from incarceration. We believe in the ultimate elimination of all wretched, inhuman penal institutions, because the masses of men and women imprisoned inside the United States or by the United States military are the victims of oppressive conditions which are the real cause of their imprisonment. We believe that when persons are brought to trial they must be guaranteed, by the United States, juries of their peers, attorneys of their choice and freedom from imprisonment while awaiting trial.

WE WANT LAND, BREAD, HOUSING, EDUCATION, CLOTHING, JUSTICE, PEACE AND PEOPLE'S COMMUNITY CONTROL OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY.
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and, accordingly, all experience hath shown that mankind are most disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpation, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

[ 07-08-2002, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by John D Harris: I'm going to disagree with you on the passive part, The Black Panthers were anything but passive, having comitted shootings, bombing, and other acts of violence.

To your credit John, some black panthers acted offenisively, but the original intention from the self-defense side was to protect civil rights activists as well as home and family from things like shootings and bombings.

Obviously when the anti-war activism sprang forth, some black panthers joined with radicals to attack the goverment with violence, which only works if you have a bigger better equiped army. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Many of the founders of the panthers denounced violence, regarding it use as only in self defense of person, family and home. Unfortunately and typically the news media and goverment have left a different note on the panthers in the history books.

Although I am a pacifist, I cant blame them for wanting to arm themselves in defense considering some of the terrorism perpetuated in Amercia upon people of african descent during the civil rights movement. Churchs being bombed, young black men being lynched, shot and beat to death ect, not to mention the assassination of MLK.

[ 07-08-2002, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[The Hunter of Jahanna]

Um , this is just my 2 cents , but if you change the "Black and opressed" part of the Black panthers charter to "white god fearing people" it sounds an awful lot like something the KKK would write.

this is not flamebaiting!! This is my honest opinion.

[Neb]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Um , this is just my 2 cents , but if you change the "Black and opressed" part of the Black panthers charter to "white god fearing people" it sounds an awful lot like something the KKK would write. this is not flamebaiting!! This is my honest opinion.

I have to agree with this. That stuff isn't for equality, it's for black supremacy with them having more rights and luxuries than others.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

John D. - I would LOVE to hear the more "in-depth" version. The original article quoted by Hunter indicated that Holloman did more than just "silently raise his fist". So what did the local news discover?

Hunter - I checked out the "swastika" site. I admire what the guy is trying to do, but there hasn't been NEARLY enough time pass by to erase the association of the swastika with the most vicious factions of Nazi Germany.

Chewbacca - You are correct...I did NOT check out Seale's site before my previous response (I was at work and spend WAY too much time browsing IW as it is). I have checked it out now and I have to say that I'm not very impressed. He is still espousing the same "victimized ideology" he used in the '60's. His attitude doesn't seem to have changed with the times at all. As I mentioned earlier, Charles Manson feels HE's a political prisoner too.

As you pointed out, the reputation of the Black Panthers was indelibly stained by the actions of a few radical members. This just goes to prove my earlier point about the media. I was too young to understand the whole Civil Rights movement in the late '60's, so all I have to go on are the media reports from the time....and they're mostly biased against the Panthers. Whether the portrayal is historically accurate is really a moot point.

In reference to the the issue at hand, the POINT is that MOST people associate the Black Panthers and their "raised fist" with militant acitivists who bombed buildings and shot at police. AFA the "symbolism" of the fist is concerned, the public's PERCEPTION of reality is more important than the actuality of reality. MOST people perceive the "raised fist" as a sign of protest from a violent group.

This is no different than the other article Hunter provided not long ago about the two seniors that gave a Nazi salute for the High School Annual Cover Photo Shoot. In the picture, it is appears the boys are acting mostly in a joking fashion (albeit a joke of VERY bad taste). However, some Jewish parents sued the school over the photo becuase of what the gesture symoblized.

So, it is the "percieved" meaning (rather than the actual meaning) that is really important. And the "raised fist" is percieved as latently dangerous.

Now, in all fairness to the Black Panthers, I looked up related stories on te AP News Network. Here is a brief overview and history of the group from a "non-biased" source. It supports a lot of Seale's claim....so I stand corrected on my premature judgement of him.

A Concise History of the Black Panthers

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: Um , this is just my 2 cents , but if you change the "Black and opressed" part of the Black panthers charter to "white god fearing people" it sounds an awful lot like something the KKK would write. this is not flamebaiting!! This is my honest opinion.

Keep in mind when that charter was written the kkk had all those things, while many African Americans were engaged in a long struggle just to be equal. Can you blame them for the strong words? Besides the Panthers worked closely with other activist of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds.

[Chewbacca]

Hey Cerek.

I wouldnt compare Mr. Seales to charles manson, and although I agree the victim card is more played out in todays world than the one the panthers were born from. The 60's was make it or break it time for equality. The black community was under terrorist attack by their fellow Americans, Its hard for me to blame anyone for choosing to fight for their rights, Although I favor MLK's tactics for my own activism.

Thanks for the link. The Panthers are part of a painful time for America, but they helped forge a legacy that lives today in the spirit of standing up for freedom and equality that extends beyond their own ideology. A little clear air about them is refreshing. [img]smile.gif[/img]