Ironworks Gaming Forum - Fallout from the Pledge

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Quote:

School 'pledge' protest goes before court
By BARNINI CHAKRABORTY
The Associated Press

Atlanta -- A federal appeals court heard arguments Friday on whether an Alabama school system had the right to discipline a student who stood silently with his fist raised rather than recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

The student, Michael Holloman, a high school senior from Parrish, Ala., who has since graduated, was spanked three times with a wooden paddle and given a written reprimand.

The case was argued before the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta only days after another federal appeals court ruled that the pledge is unconstitutional because of the words "under God."

The attorney for the school board in Walker County, Ala., told the judges that Holloman was punished two years ago for disrupting class, not for refusing to say the pledge.

"He acted out, and he has attempted to cloak his behavior in the First Amendment," attorney Russell Robertson said.

Robertson said a teacher sent Holloman to the principal's office after receiving several complaints from other students who said they were unable to say the pledge because of Holloman's actions.

But Holloman's lawyer, Charles Tatum, said his client did not disrupt the class. He said raising a fist in the air was a form of speech, similar to placing a hand over your heart when saying the pledge.

"You've got a right to disagree with things that are seen as morally and politically correct in this country," Tatum said.

Holloman was not present during Friday's arguments.

Court papers said Walker County school board policy requires students to say the pledge and salute the flag during the day's first class. The policy also requires students to sit through "prayer requests" and a moment of silence.

The suit, filed two years ago in federal court, said Walker County's policy of requiring the pledge violated students' rights of free speech, expression and freedom of religion.

Holloman is appealing a federal judge's decision last year to dismiss the case.

Tatum said the case differs from the one considered by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco.

"This issue in our case is related to whether a student can be punished for refusal to say the pledge more so than the issue of whether the pledge is constitutional," Tatum said.

The 9th Circuit ruling governs only the states of Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington.

This is to let all the people who said that no one can force you to say the pledge. It looks like in reality , they can.

"America's school system is one of the worst and most corruped school systems on the planet earth. Their best teachers go over seas to get cooshy well-paying jobs while the rest of the losers are forced to make sure to raise and educate "The average scitizen" in the long run this is bad for all of us. it's not just because the teachers aren't getting payed enough, it's because the students don't want to cooperate with these monstrouse thugs who place their personal belifs ABOVE their responsibilities as educators. it is things like this that sort of bring a tear to my eye, for a country that we're all supposed to love and have respect for... i find little if any..." -You're average American Scitizen

Come on now, that's a bit too insulting, isn't it?...

I have to disagree, I had some very good teachers, and they didn't do it for the money, but because they loved what they do.

Ridiculous... They even hit him with a paddle for not reciting the pledge? Crazy Americans... Thank God I never had to deal with similar nonsense in the public school I attended to. ;)

[ 07-06-2002, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

<font color="snow">And before someone here told me you never had to say the pledge...now apparently you get spanked for not saying...so much for the choice. </font>

Read the article. This was not a simple refusal to say the Pledge. He was disrupting the class, making it difficult for the other students to enjoy their rights.

I did not say the Pledge once in my entire stay in public school. Not once in twelve years. I was never punished, or reprimanded. At the beginning of the year, I was asked on occasion to explain the religious beliefs that did not allow me to participate, but I was then asked to either stand, sit or leave the room quietly. the choice was mine.

What this person did was not respectful to teachers, or his fellow students. If he chose to NOT say the pledge, he could have done so. He chose to DISRUPT the class, and the Pledge that the other students were giving.

And he let them do that to him ? What a sissy !

Quote:

Originally posted by RudeDawg:
Read the article. This was not a simple refusal to say the Pledge. He was disrupting the class, making it difficult for the other students to enjoy their rights.

I did not say the Pledge once in my entire stay in public school. Not once in twelve years. I was never punished, or reprimanded. At the beginning of the year, I was asked on occasion to explain the religious beliefs that did not allow me to participate, but I was then asked to either stand, sit or leave the room quietly. the choice was mine.

What this person did was not respectful to teachers, or his fellow students. If he chose to NOT say the pledge, he could have done so. He chose to DISRUPT the class, and the Pledge that the other students were giving.

Well sorry but I can't agree with that, yes he may have caught their eyes at first, but it's not impossible to speak when someone has their arm raised is it?

you have got to be kidding me... this is a true story? bloody hell. refusal to recite a pledge. rofl. they 'hit him with a wooden paddle' for that? This is unbelieveable. Standing up with a raised fist?! really screwed up. both teacher and student. *shakes his head*