Ban on Nazi-symbols?

[johnny]

Originally posted by Dreamer128: Ever the cynic, Johnny. Granted, the League of the Nations and the United Nations didn't (don't) always do the best of jobs. But I think the European Union has, and is, definately working out as a peace project. Compare the number of times the EU states went to war with each other before 1945 to the number of times it happened the founding of the European Community.

I can think of a few other reasons than that....

A we were all as good as broke. No money = Not being able to lay siege on anyone

B We are no longer the topdogs, the days the Europeans could do whatever they fancied are long gone.

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by johnny: Germany banned all nazi symbols, even swastika stickers on small scale model airplanes, just to give one example,..

And Germany now has the largest underground neo-Nazi problem in Europe. (or the world?)

[johnny]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: quote: Originally posted by johnny: Germany banned all nazi symbols, even swastika stickers on small scale model airplanes, just to give one example,..

And Germany now has the largest underground neo-Nazi problem in Europe. (or the world?) [/QUOTE]At least they are underground, where they can't do any harm other than violating a few Jewish graveyards. Compared to how it used to be, the German nazi movement is a joke. Allow them to go public again, and who knows...maybe they'd win the minds and hearts of the people again. Give them time on TV and radio and their numbers will swell. Non of this is an option for them when having to sneak around.

[Aragorn1]

i think it was a senseless act, but he was not wearing to represent the views of the Nazi party, that i would despise him for, he was doing it for fancy dress, I was wholly unsuitable but not to be seen as a political statement.

It must also be said that had he come as one of Beria's NKVD commissars he would have been fine, or Pol Pot, or Mao or... The reaction would not have been half as bad.

just picked the evil dictator with the highest profile that causes the most outrage, even though Stalin had similarly dis-tasteful policies and killed many more than Hitler.

[shamrock_uk]

In an bit of a twist, UK Hindu's are lobbying the government to oppose the ban, due to the swastika's roots as a Hindu good luck charm. They hope to raise awareness of the fact it is their second most holy symbol, arguing that banning the swastika would be like banning crosses because the KKK burned them.

Full (and interesting) story here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4188141.stm

I guess this illustrates the dangers of issuing draconian laws in a democracy...the issue is always too complicated.

[ 01-19-2005, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: In an bit of a twist, UK Hindu's are lobbying the government to oppose the ban, due to the swastika's roots as a Hindu good luck charm. They hope to raise awareness of the fact it is their second most holy symbol, arguing that banning the swastika would be like banning crosses because the KKK burned them. Full (and interesting) story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4188141.stm I guess this illustrates the dangers of issuing draconian laws in a democracy...the issue is always too complicated.

It was also a symbol for many American Indian tribes, in fact the USA Boy Scouts used it as badge(honoring the American Indian tribes) before WWII, they removed it, and there was flak here for doing so.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Sigmar: If someone actually wore the Swatstika in a party I went to, I would definately make my disgust known to him, and if he defends it claiming it is merely a "Fashion Statement", then the guy deserves to be punched in the face anyhow.

The use of swastikas as a "fashion statement" was actually quite common in the late 70s/begin 80s punk scene - not that they actually agree with any of the nazi policies, but purely for shock effect (idiotic bands like Skrewdriver excluded). You'd be surprised to find out that Joy Division and Siouxie & the Banshees for example once embraced that particular "fashion statement", even though they were part of an anti-racist movement later on.

[Azred]

The Nazi party actually used a reversed swastika, ultimately generating an effect akin to the Church of Satan's use of the inverted cross.

Still, wishing to ban a symbol is folly because you will never ban the ideas behind it.

[Seraph]

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by shamrock_uk: In an bit of a twist, UK Hindu's are lobbying the government to oppose the ban, due to the swastika's roots as a Hindu good luck charm. They hope to raise awareness of the fact it is their second most holy symbol, arguing that banning the swastika would be like banning crosses because the KKK burned them. Full (and interesting) story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4188141.stm I guess this illustrates the dangers of issuing draconian laws in a democracy...the issue is always too complicated.

It was also a symbol for many American Indian tribes, in fact the USA Boy Scouts used it as badge(honoring the American Indian tribes) before WWII, they removed it, and there was flak here for doing so. [/QUOTE]It was also used on the unit patch of the 45th division of the US Army before World War II. In 1939 it was replaced with a different native american symbol, a gold thunderbird.

[Dreamer128]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: Originally posted by Dreamer128: Ever the cynic, Johnny. Granted, the League of the Nations and the United Nations didn't (don't) always do the best of jobs. But I think the European Union has, and is, definately working out as a peace project. Compare the number of times the EU states went to war with each other before 1945 to the number of times it happened the founding of the European Community.

I can think of a few other reasons than that....

A we were all as good as broke. No money = Not being able to lay siege on anyone

B We are no longer the topdogs, the days the Europeans could do whatever they fancied are long gone. [/QUOTE]I think it's more then that. Germany was broke after WWI, that didn't stop them from conquering most of the continent. After WWII, the European states chose not to invest in defence, but rather to put our money in the 'care-state'. People wanted to invest in peace. Let's not forget that the EU started out as the 'European Coal and Steel Community'. The Western European coal and steel industries (which, at the time, were very important to any war effort) were integrated. At the time, this was the best way to insure peace.