Cheney on Gay Marriage

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: Gay Marriage? No. A different union under the law that legally binds gay people? Yes! Marriage is a Christian foundation, and despite the fact that as Cerek, I consider it a sin, I believe we shouldn't mess with that, just as I don't mess with eating meat and calling it Ramadan.

Hahaha. Yeah, and major Christian Churches are Roman Pagan State-Religion temples with crucifixes added [img]tongue.gif[/img] Marriage doesn't have its foundations in Christianity man. Christianity inherited it.

edit: spelling.

[ 08-30-2004, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Oblivion437]

Let's not forget that the Dead Rabbits prayed to God, with an Irish Catholic priest blessing them:

May the lord put the steel of the holy spirit in your spine and the love of the blessed virgin in your heart.

They and others did this before engaging in some incredibly brutal violence, even if their reasons were good.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: Let's not forget that the Dead Rabbits prayed to God, with an Irish Catholic priest blessing them: May the lord put the steel of the holy spirit in your spine and the love of the blessed virgin in your heart. They and others did this before engaging in some incredibly brutal violence, even if their reasons were good.

Heh heh, anything goes so long as you can convince enough people to go with it huh? Nietzsche was right, Zarathustra spoke sagely. God is dead. All we have are ourselves [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: and I mean that philosophically, not religiously (although the two are often inseperably connected). So please mods, don't lock the thread because of that statement.

[ 08-30-2004, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Timber Loftis]

And the abyss. Don't forget the abyss.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: And the abyss. Don't forget the abyss.

Heh heh. Yeah, the most Christian proverb of a most un-Christian man [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by JrKASperov: Gay Marriage? No. A different union under the law that legally binds gay people? Yes! Marriage is a Christian foundation, and despite the fact that as Cerek, I consider it a sin, I believe we shouldn't mess with that, just as I don't mess with eating meat and calling it Ramadan.

Hahaha. Yeah, and major Christian Churches are Roman Pagan State-Religion temples with crucifixes added [img]tongue.gif[/img] Marriage doesn't have its foundations in Christianity man. Christianity inherited it.

edit: spelling. [/QUOTE]Except that Christianity started over 4,000 years ago. You're only counting from the Jewish schism circa 33AD. If you have a Christian Worldview, you'd be saying that Adam and Eve were married, so it was from the year dot. It's understandable if someone with a Christian perspective cites marriage as an initially "christian" (read, God-intended) state of being. It's understandable if the atheist evolutionist disagrees.

Live and let live.

As for building swapping use, there's nothing strange about that. My church meets in a film academy and a Theatre. They're just buildings. Nothing Holy about the buildings. The church is the people.

Islam has Holy places though, and plenty of old christian church buildings have been sold to Muslim groups.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Oblivion437: Let's not forget that the Dead Rabbits prayed to God, with an Irish Catholic priest blessing them: May the lord put the steel of the holy spirit in your spine and the love of the blessed virgin in your heart. They and others did this before engaging in some incredibly brutal violence, even if their reasons were good.

Heh heh, anything goes so long as you can convince enough people to go with it huh? Nietzsche was right, Zarathustra spoke sagely. God is dead. All we have are ourselves [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: and I mean that philosophically, not religiously (although the two are often inseperably connected). So please mods, don't lock the thread because of that statement. [/QUOTE]"Neitzche is dead" - God

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Yorick: "Neitzche is dead" - God

Hahaha. Touche! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

edit: sig

[ 08-30-2004, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Yorick: Except that Christianity started over 4,000 years ago. You're only counting from the Jewish schism circa 33AD. If you have a Christian Worldview, you'd be saying that Adam and Eve were married, so it was from the year dot. It's understandable if someone with a Christian perspective cites marriage as an initially "christian" (read, God-intended) state of being. It's understandable if the atheist evolutionist disagrees. Live and let live. As for building swapping use, there's nothing strange about that. My church meets in a film academy and a Theatre. They're just buildings. Nothing Holy about the buildings. The church is the people. Islam has Holy places though, and plenty of old christian church buildings have been sold to Muslim groups.

Solid dude. Solid.

edit: sig, again! dammit! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 08-30-2004, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I would say that at least half of America's "family units" do not meet the "traditional definition" (and I'm probably being overly generous in that esitmate).

Well, I'd argue that 'nuclear' families arn't all that traditional anyway. The almost neurotic Protestant obsession with them is very new, only a few centuries old really. I think that the nuclear family movement has done more damage to 'Western' society than good. Where once families were a predominantly 'loose' shared social phenomena, the nuclear family compartmentalised and segregated a child's upbringing. The nuclear system insists a doctrine of 'these are my kids' and 'those are your kids', as opposed to 'these are the kids of our caste/class/community'. If the pervasive belief of 'nuclear families as natural' (and they arn't natural, indeed so-called 'natural' social systems are little more than artifical moral inventions)is removed, the stigma and pressure to maintain nuclear units is lessened, and in turn alot of the 'negative' effects of not fitting the imposed ideal are negated. A biological mother and father are not as important as father and mother figures, which every person in society can participate in being for a child, whether hetero or homo sexual.

Now here comes my social engineering rant...
It's a question of manipulating the 'sheep' of society (ie: those of 'servant' mentality that look to 'master' figures for direction and guidance. -As an example, there wouldn't be no presidential elections if Americans truly wanted to be their own masters... instead social authority and the responsibility thereof is bestowed upon chosen 'rulership specialists'-) into a re-aligned perception of nature... this re-alignment will of course be just as artifical as such any other 'natural' worldview that had gone before, but it will be one that fits more neatly with contemporary trends (in technology, changing demography, changing rhythms of work and industry etc). Instead of furiously clinging on to dying traditions in the face of changing circumstances, adapt the tradition, and the mentality behind that tradition, to waltz more gracefully with the changing world. This takes decades, even centuries of inter-generational direction. It's a gradual process, but a necessary one. [/QUOTE]I absolutely agree. Very good post Hierophant! [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img] I would make some eloquent comment, or attempt to, but you said it about as eloquent as can be done. Once again: [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]