Filesharing (theft) Some facts about music and copyright:

[Chewbacca]

Indeed! [img]smile.gif[/img] I am glad now that I threw caution to the wind and stuck with this discussion. I hope everyone finds humor in the fact that I stated I was bowing out at least four times and yet here I am. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Thanks for sharing the song, I had to listen to it twice in a row, due to the high enjoyment factor. Very nice! I know you do vocals, is that you on guitar as well?

Cheers


Edit-Holy shizzle! .30 a CD!!! Whew! That is rough financially, but I can see the joy and fullfilment side of actaully making and then having a CD.

[ 02-05-2004, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Yorick]

I'm glad you did too. [img]smile.gif[/img] I did find the humour in it.

Thanks for your comments re. the song. Yeah I played the guitar. I did everything on it except played the drums. Mixed it. Recorded it. Sang it. A man, a laptop, some guitars and a mic.

I had a loop overlaid with programming before (I do play drums as well) and was never happy with the result. Having Ken play on it gave it such a lift I just had to rerecord the guitars... they WERE fun to play in.

As per the $$ yeah. Rips all around, but I knew what I was looking at. I also reasoned that if it sold a million copies, that would be about $300 000 which was a heck of a lot more than I had at the time.

But it never did. That particular record got caught in a political mess. "Megalomaniac manager destroys band."

Long ago I decided to make records to please myself. Then I would have a full musical life with lots of songs I like, regardless of whether they sell, make money or whatever. Simply being able to become your own audience is an incredible reality only the technology of this age allows.

I also learned from each one. I made sure I took notes (mentally) when doing the first two records I did. They were a free education from some serious "gurus" in many ways. I was able to ask questions, hear and see changes, understand concepts and causes and demystify the whole process.

I wouldn't change anything. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyhow, very glad you hung in there. [img]smile.gif[/img] I do actually like you you know.

[dplax]

I'd just like to add a few thoughts and a question. I do not agree with filesharing, or copying CD's. Just as a note in Hungary the amount of original software used is below 20%, and music is even worse. This even though there is a specialzed branch of police, who if they find stolen software or music or films they can charge 40 times the original price. I myself have friends who own dozens of CD's none of which are original, but simply because of the size of the problem in Hungary nothing can be done until more effective control.
And now for the question: If I own CD's is it legal to convert them to WMA's with Windows Media Player onto a laptop and listen to them with it?

edit: Even though that song is a bit "softer" than what I usually listen to it was great.

[ 02-05-2004, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: dplax ]

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I want to supplement statements Yorick has made to clarify some things. If you own a copy of copyrighted works (such as CDs) you MAY make compilation CDs. For your own use, of course. Your ownership of ONE copy includes your right to make OTHER copies for your own enjoyment, including compilation discs that you enjoy. You should not share/give/sell these copies, but I just wanted you to know you ARE NOT breaking copyright laws by making compiltion CDs and other copies for your own enjoyment. Quite simply, once you own a copy of the song, you can make as many copies as you please. Just don't share/sell/give those copies to others. Oh, and making those nice romantic "mix tapes/CDs" is a fine gesture, but if you give the other person copies of music they don't own, you technically have infringed on the artists' copyright.

And exactly the same rules apply in the EU towards music - as well as towards books, videos and software (in most EU countries). Furthermore, any 'user agreement' (as in the case of software) which contravenes these rights are held to be invalid.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by dplax: And now for the question: If I own CD's is it legal to convert them to WMA's with Windows Media Player onto a laptop and listen to them with it?

Since you are in France, the answer is yes, it is legal.
The only condition is that if you re-sell or otherwise transfer ownership of the original media, you are bound to destroy any copies that you might have made, including the WMA's.

[Yorick]

dplax, I have no idea what the law is in Hungary regarding that. At worst it would be a technical infringement.

Even if so, I certainly wouldn't worry about converting your CDs into wavs or mp3s for your player. Just don't share those files with anyone else. Copyright is a tricky business, and technical infringements happen all the time. I've infringed and been infringed. If I listen to a song on a CD and write a score of it for myself and put the name of the song up top, I've infringed.

The laws exist to protect us, not to be an inconvenience. This is why it's so alien to people that the record companies would actually (shock horror) do their job and protect our copyright, as though THEY are infringing listeners rights.

Very odd philosophy reversal.

If it was illegal in Hungary, and you really wanted to do the right thing, you could always send a quick email to the copyright owner (listed on the CD) and ask for permission. I can't imagine it would be a problem.

Thanks for your encouragment dplax.

An honest music lover is a great thing. I understand the confusion and the financial difficulty in trying to obtain the CDs you love. I understand how tempting it can be to take the stoen music.

But there's a big difference bewtween guiltily taking a album with a mind to buying it someday, to self rightously proclaiming justifications and heralding a revolution, as though undermining copyright itself is a thing artists are going to be overjoyed with.

The real problem in Hungary, if there is such rampant piracy, is that Hungarian artists would find it extraordinarily hard to make music - especially to get out of the country. Wherever there is rampant music piracy in the world, so there is a void of recorded music reaching the culture. Without the funds, a local area can't compete against the imports from area with less piracy.

Asia being the prime example.

Anyhow good talking with you. Be safe. You sound like a top bloke. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Skunk: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I want to supplement statements Yorick has made to clarify some things. If you own a copy of copyrighted works (such as CDs) you MAY make compilation CDs. For your own use, of course. Your ownership of ONE copy includes your right to make OTHER copies for your own enjoyment, including compilation discs that you enjoy. You should not share/give/sell these copies, but I just wanted you to know you ARE NOT breaking copyright laws by making compiltion CDs and other copies for your own enjoyment. Quite simply, once you own a copy of the song, you can make as many copies as you please. Just don't share/sell/give those copies to others. Oh, and making those nice romantic "mix tapes/CDs" is a fine gesture, but if you give the other person copies of music they don't own, you technically have infringed on the artists' copyright.

And exactly the same rules apply in the EU towards music - as well as towards books, videos and software (in most EU countries). Furthermore, any 'user agreement' (as in the case of software) which contravenes these rights are held to be invalid. [/QUOTE]But as I posted, if you do so in Australia, you're breaking the law.

[dplax]

Originally posted by Yorick: But there's a big difference bewtween guiltily taking a album with a mind to buying it someday, to self rightously proclaiming justifications and heralding a revolution, as though undermining copyright itself is a thing artists are going to be overjoyed with.

I for example have 2 copied CD's (out of about 50) which I had intended to buy, but they are out of production and I couldn't find them anywhere on the internet, but still I couldn't find them, but are still on the look out for them.

The real problem in Hungary, if there is such rampant piracy, is that Hungarian artists would find it extraordinarily hard to make music - especially to get out of the country. Wherever there is rampant music piracy in the world, so there is a void of recorded music reaching the culture. Without the funds, a local area can't compete against the imports from area with less piracy.

That is exactly the problem. On radio stations in Hungary foreign music (which IMO is even better) although it gets played about the same amount as hungarian music, scores always higher on the charts. And near to none hungarian artists are known outside of Hungary. Possible exceptions could be bands who manage to get good relations with a foreign band of the same genre. There is for example a metal band which has relations with Pain of Salvation (a swedish band) who have managed to get a bit known outside of Hungary. And then there is always the language barrier to overcome, since in foreign countries no one would be interested by music sung in hungarian.
There is also a rather large music festival in Hungary each year called Pepsi Sziget (translated as Pepsi Island) which lasts a week, attracts musicians from all over the world and gets a few hundred thousand spectators during the week. People come mostly from Hungary, Germany and the Netherlands and the majority of the artists are foreign. Past artists include: Offspring, Run DMC, Bomfunk MC's and other known artist, although that is all I remember from the time I had been there.

Anyhow good talking with you. Be safe. You sound like a top bloke. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thank you. You too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[WillowIX]

I have no problem with copyright but I do not agree with the statement "you do not own the contents of the CD", and I know it's not yours Yorick. [img]smile.gif[/img] If I buy a CD I should be able to do whatever I want with them short of supplying others with the music, that is I should be able to do whatever I want with them for private use. Otherwise I should be able to buy the CD for $1 and pay a small loan fee. Surprisingly no store agrees with that. LOL

And Yorick, file sharing does not equal theft, that's nothing but RIAA propaganda. It has several other uses than that.

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, thanks for the Aussie law articles. For the US, what you would want to research is what's known as the "fair use doctrine."

Oh, and in the US, IIRC, performing the work in public DOES create a copyright issue.

While it's a printing/publishing concern more than a RIAA concern, the biggest copyright infringers are university professors. Just think about all those photocopies you were distributed in school.