The U.S. as seen from a world perspective, politically. Your opinion please!

I realise the fact that Carbondioxide might not be the cause of Global Warming But does this mean we can continue to polute the planet? I don't think so
Also China and Russia are new economies and thus they are more pollutive
All heavy industry is. Don't give them an excuse to stay polutive by keeping on pointing at others that they are polutive too.

Also it's about breaking your word
And that to me is something that's something that's almost unforgivible

------------------

OMG I have no Arms
Wait I don't have a body either
But i DO have a Desert Eagle

Next "rant" About the November election. Cry me a river. That election was NO different than any other election in the way it played out. It was a closer race but after the fact the numbers were born out. Bush won, Gore lost. The electoral college decides presidential elections in the USA not the popular vote. This has been true since day 1. The problems with the voting system have been there all along and it took a close race to make headlines is all. Even with the faults in the system the USA is still the leading model for the world to follow, this might tweak some ego's but hey deal with reality..the USA is where the Millions of people are trying to immigrate to each year, you dont see nearly those kinds numbers lining up to get into Zimbabwe... well just my 2 cents there. Im not saying the system is perfect, Im jst saying that at this point in time, its the best man has come up with that has worked for 200 years and counting. Stop in and check with me in another 200 and Ill give my opinion then

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Rikard, Kyoto accord doesnt restrict those so called "developing" countries.
It cuts only at those countries which are already taking steps to clean up their acts. If you want a global accord on something you need to make the rules apply to everyone or no one. The Kyoto accord also is full of loopholes allowing countries which have no interest in developing to "sell" their "pollution allotments" to other counrties. So all it ends up being is a "wealth redistribution" plan...and speaking as a tax payer of the country that is responsible for 80% (according to the 1998 UN figures) of all charitable contributions (in 1998 dollars) world wide, I think Im distributing quite enough of my wealth thank you very much. And about breaking words...umm I do not recall the US government ever passing legislation supporting the Kyoto accord. The lame duck president at the last minute signed many "Executive Orders" which when investigated were illegal. Clinton had no authority to agree to the accords without passing it in congress first. We apologize for our previous chief executives mischief and hope that he is brought to justice at some point in the near future.

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-05-2001).]

[skywalker]

MagiK

Don't tell me...you are a Republican, right?


Mark

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by skywalker: Please, everyone! America is filled with good people and some bad. Less than 50% of us elected the current President and the rest of us aren't really that happy with our current direction. I agre with a lot posted here, but try not to bash us just because we have poor management. I struggle every day with what is going on and hope for better times in 2004. Thanx for "all" your views, I just wish that my government was here to read them. Mark

Guys, this thread and the comments posted here have not been about American Bashing.

I take the question which started this thread as asking the perception of America on the whole – as a social/economical/governmental power and any prevailing trends or directions in America at this moment in time. This is not to say that all Americans feel a certain way, because obviously they don’t. Indeed, America is a vast country with sometimes strong internal discord.

However, as an American, I agree totally with criticisms of the US regarding the overall folly of our wastefulness of limited world resources, and willful blindness to it.

The evidence of serious environmental stress on the planet is everywhere you look. One has to be blind not to see it. Nature continues to retreat before mankind with no sign of halting, much less reversing. We refuse to even consider the possibility of doing anything serious to stop it. We just say our mantra to preserving the American way of life and stick our heads back in the sand.

As far as there is one in this world, America is the shining beacon of capitalism and its philosophy of profit as the guiding measure of well being, of even the quality of life.

Our economic dogmas are the holy grail to us, the very key to the materialistic prosperity known as the American way. To question them is unthinkable.

Economic power and wealth is so worshipped in the US that the people find themselves handing over the reigns of government every election cycle to yet another representative of the wealth/power elite, on and on.

The sorry thing is rationalized by the voting dupes as the only choices available, which if true is only the fault of the people themselves, who are too lazy or to too preoccupied with pursuing the American Way of Life to care, unless they are part of the unfortunate mass of poor who struggle just to eke out an existence.

This is the social and political power structure of the America I perceive, as a person who was born here and has lived here all of my life.


Btw, this rant was colored by reading the GATs thread

[Donut]

Originally posted by MagiK: About the Kyoto accord and the USA not going along with it. First and foremost, Global warming as a result of HUMAN interference has not even been close to being an established fact.

Here's a fact for you. The White House recently asked for guidance on global warming from the foremost body of scientists in the US, the National Academy of Sciences. The NAS rejected the scepticism of the Bush administration about the problem. They believed it to be a serious problem, at least partly man-made.

The link to the NAS is here

I accept your point about volcanoes etc but we can't do anything about that. We can do something about man made emissions.

BTW - I agree with you about the US being clean - I've been to Disneyworld




------------------

Save Chip - Don't let Sarah win!
Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas
Don't mention the score - I mentioned it but I think I got away with it!

Actually Skywalker no Im not.. I did vote for the republican candidate in the last election.... What I am is someone who through experience and education has decided to think for my self and not believe the lies told by either side.
In the 1970's when I was in High school, the eco-nuts told us that in the far off year of 2000 the Amazon rain forest would be gone, Oil and fossil fuels would be a thing of the past in the 1980's and the world would be a flaming ruin ...well guess what? I have since learned that those suppo9sed knowledgeable people were lying through their teeth to get their agenda's passed. They use scare tactics and make up statistics to provbe their point. So if you want to prove to me that your point is valid you better be able to show me the data and back it up. I most closely align with the Libertarian party politically but I know that only a Republican or a Democrat can actually win an election for president so thats where my vote goes, to the candidate that is the lesser of two evils. Gore would have been a nightmare for the US economy, defense and security thus I voted for Bush.

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Posted by Magik
"First and foremost, Global warming as a result of HUMAN interference has not even been close to being an established fact. Any competent meteorologist will tell you that no one really knows what effect man has on the global weather. Also it should be pointed out that a single volcanic eruption puts more "greenhouse gasses" into the atmosphere than all of mankind combined. Man has only been measuring actual temmperatures and weather patterns for a very very short time. Geologicaly speaking we are supposedly between Ice Ages and we have no idea what happens to set into motion an Ice Age. All the kyoto accord does is medel further with processes that man doesnt understand and allow third world contries to produce all the polution and smog they want while hamstringing the US. "


Not to be too contrary, but your comments above are dead wrong in regard to the scientific communitys' understanding of the greenhouse effect. There are numerous studies from various groups which all correlate the same conclusion. We are indeed speeding the rise of the earths' average temperature due to the production of greenhouse gasses. I would challenge you to cite even one report from one accredited group of scientists which supports your arguments.


[This message has been edited by Absynthe (edited 09-05-2001).]

Sorry Donut I don't buy it I know too many real life meteorologists who admit they don't have the Data, the NAS is not an independant unbiased entity. Where do they get their money?? who writes their checks and makes the multi-million $$$ donations??? The models used are flawed, they don't even take into account the effects of minor things like volcanic eruptions, outgassing of CO2 from the seabed (which by the way is amazing to see when you are in a small sailboat) such small things as the great lakes, or even some failry major ocean currents. Nope they don't know and won't admit it because they know wherre their money comes from. As for the studies Absynthe talks about, its easy to put out a "study" the problem is that the studies are not unbiased. You don't get government grant money if you report that there is no problem. There are just as many studies that refute global warming is affected by people as there are that go the other way....the groups that are saying that man is to fault for global warming are the same ones that told me a few years ago that the Amazon Rain forest would be extinct in the late 1990's they lost their credibility.

------------------
Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-05-2001).]

[Blade]

To clarify the electorial collage thing. It was put into the constitution from the very first becaue 200 or so years ago they didn't have mass comunication so most of the populus didn't know what most of the canidates were about, there are cases of people voting for a canidate just because he gave out beer. It was set into place so say a person like Hitlar couldn't become prezident. Also the electorial collage vote hase differed from the popular vote twice now sence the founding of the US which isn't bad in my opinion.

------------------
Life and death are mearly shadows of the complexity of humans