CLERIC VS MAGLINGS

[Pirengle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wally p:
one, there isn't a pinned/stickied thread about this, so i imagine a lot of people just want to have these discussions but don't feel like using the search function like a fine-toothed comb.

People love discussion and debate (or agitation and argument). Have you ever seen some random newbie stumble in on this board claiming that sorcerers are worthless or the Viconia romance is lackluster or Anomen might have some redeeming points? All the folks who ever soloed a sorcerer, or the Viconia Fan Club, or the Anti-Anomen Society pour in with their opinions, and people actually read the BG2 board for a change.

second, while it may seem that everything there is to know about BG2 is already known, that seems like a biiig statement and you never know when new things will be discovered that might actually tip the balance of things.

Yeah, like some new loophole the game designers forgot to sew shut or a new mod that drops a few new weights on those scales. [img]tongue.gif[/img] (Lest we forget that discrepancies between PnP D&D and the Infinity Engine led to the arcane magic dominance in the BG series.)

[Userunfriendly]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: quote: Originally posted by Userunfriendly: now cleric mage vs sorceror...that one is a little tougher..dundee's opinion not withstanding, a 12/12 cleric mage vs 24 sorceror...that's hard to call... 24/24 cleric mage vs 24 sorceror...cleric mage would win... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Well duh... considering you are crushing a lad that has 5,250,000XP with a beast that has 8,850,000XP.

Not a fair fight, and unrealistic too, because numbers are rarely even in multiclassed characters.

A lvl 24 Sorcerer duelling with a Cleric/Mage of equivalent XP faces an opponent that is 19/17. The numbers become more lopsided as the XP goes higher. [/QUOTE]now that actually sounds interesting, worth another discussion thread...

sorc vs cleric/mage...equal xp, who would win???

i would say sorc...but i tend to be prejudiced...i always have both in my parties, and find both invaluable..

[Dundee Slaytern]

Whoever casts Time Stop first... ...

Both can use the Invisibility + Spell Immunityivination Trigger.

The Cleric/Mage has more "supercombos".

The Sorcerer has more spell selection flexibility during combat.

Should the two be oppositely aligned though... the Cleric/Mage's chances of winning is increased tremendously.

However... realistically speaking. If the twine shall meet, a battle of brutality shall not commence, but a fearsome union of co-operation.

[Pirengle]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: However... realistically speaking. If the twine shall meet, a battle of brutality shall not commence, but a fearsome union of co-operation.

I wonder. A party made up of a skald, a cleric/mage, a sorcerer, an inquisitor, a fighter/cleric, and a swashbuckler. Possible powerhouse?

(I would say PC, Aerie, Kelsey, Keldorn, Anomen, and Jan, but the NPCs have their own little incongruous quirks, and some of their stats suck, quite frankly. One permanent DEX-increasing item in the game, and many characters have nose-hair-curling dexterity. I wish there'd been a lot of DEX-increasing items in the game and just one STR-increasing one, because, IMO, STR isn't quite as important as DEX, but that's neither here nor there.)

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Pirengle.... WE HAVE A VICONIA FAN CLUB?! Why was I not informed of this?!

Oh, and as for the cleric/mage vs sorc...
Personally, I feel the sorc would win. Assuming they both have the Robe of Vecna.. Yeah, like Dundee said, whomever casts Timestop first. HOWEVER...
We can also assume that chain contingencies and contingencies will be active. Perhaps with spells like Spell Deflection active. Maybe even lowly Mislead!
Because, as we all know, you can't target spells on invisible creatures. And you can't DISPEL the invisibility during timestop, yes? (I COULD be wrong... MAYBE True Sight or a similar spell would become immediately active during a timestop.)
Assuming this is true, you're limited to Area of Effect spells, which cuts down on what the cleric/mage might already have memorized. Now, for the sorc, this wouldn't be a problem at all.
And in the end, a sorc can cast more spells than the cleric/mage. In any sort of drawn-out duel (assuming it lasts for more than five seconds), this gives the sorc the edge.

There are variables that could make this more difficult (Are they allowed a round or two to cast prep/buff spells? Are they allowed spell triggers and contingencies? Do they KNOW they're entering this sort of battle?) or interesting (What if we were to forbid Time Stop?)
In the end, though, I'm afraid I'm siding with the sorc.

[shamrock_uk]

that's an interesting thought about the time stop, will have to check that out! personally, i'm with the cleric/mage, have just installed the tashia mod and having no end of problems...i guess that's the drawback of picking up a sorceror halfway through her 'development' there are tons of low-level spells that i would have picked differently and of course i can't go back, delete some and re-memorise ones i want. for that reason, got to be the c/m [img]smile.gif[/img]

[wally p]

illumina, are you sure that the C/M will have fewer spells than the sorc?

It might be true (in fact, it probably IS true) that the sorc can cast any one spell more times than a C/M can...but a C/M has a heiiinous number of spell slots... SOOOOO many...and if you do the project image trick, that becomes even more magnified.

as for which one I'd rather have in a party...you know, I kind of have to go with the C/M even if its just for the piddly reason that Turn Undead is a ton of fun, and in some instances, really conserves resources [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Well, fewer mage spells. I don't know about cleric spells combined with mage spells.

[Xen]

Mage wins over 2nd edition Cleric. But if Clerics were implented from 3ed edition then Mages would have hard time with them.

[Pirengle]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: Pirengle.... WE HAVE A VICONIA FAN CLUB?! Why was I not informed of this?!

Because, as a somewhat loyal Jaheira fan, I hired the Shadow Thieves to investigate this big Viconia fanbase problem. And I've instructed them to investigate anyone who asks about it. [img]tongue.gif[/img] (I've heard rumors that the Night Masks have already taken care of the Anomen fans generated by FW's flirtpacks. [img]tongue.gif[/img] )

But anyway...

I'm wondering what could happen with a mage vs. cleric with a fair fight. Then compare the results to a same-level 3rd edition mage and cleric with similar gear. Looking at my PHB, clerics can get Greater Glyphs of Warding for up to 10d8 damage, Holy Word-type spells that damage lawful/chaotic creatures, Antimagic Fields, and two really nifty spells: Soul Bind (prevents a newly-dead soul from being resurrected) and Auras (four different ones, each provides +4 AC, +4 all saves, resistance to mind-control magic, chance of confusing or slowing or blinding target with a successful hit depending on which aura, and another save bonuses to spells). In 3e, a high-level cleric does indeed recieve a lovely bag of tricks.