i know. i know it's back the age old question...who is better in battle clerics or mages...

in my honest opinion i think that the clerics are better because they can battle with magic as well as melee cause one of the kits has the ability to get a sword which will allow it to fight agaqinst the mages...even thoguht the mages have great spells they still are worthless against mellee attacks since their spells will fail if disrupted...

outside of battle the clerics are useful cause they can heal while the mages...can do absolutly nothing to help the team...so in both ways the clerics are better thant the maglings...

Who's with me? :D

in playing my solo cleric, I would have to give the mage the edge in the world of BG2.

If BG2 were less plentiful in healing equipment and potions...

If BG2 divine spells had more power catch-up to arcane spells...

If BG2 clerics could use equipment that increases ApR...

then, maybe.

This is mostly a moot point in un-modded BG2, but the game is built to emphasize the talents of the mage, the thief, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the fighter, so when mods are thrown in, a mage can cope better than a cleric can.

However, if you remade the rules slightly...i.e. got rid of all regenerating items and severely limited the number of healing potions, the cleric would have a more even ground.

As it is, the Priests of Talos/Helm are the strongest (it seems to me) as compared to a mage, even a specialist one. The former can, early on, become invulnerable to electric energy and then bounce the lightning spell for large amounts of damage, though I don't know how effective that is later on as I am unsure of the number of electrically resistent enemies.

The Priest of Helm with the seeking sword can (with the help of DUHM and Righteous Magic) can be a devastating melee hitter, though one weakness of the seeking sword is that it can't cut through stoneskin. *oversight*

but even with these two kits, I still have to hand it to the mage in terms of power in the BG2 world.

Oh please! Obviously mages! And everyone we are only including MAGES not Sorcerors. Clerics can use weapons so what! A mage would simpily cast stoneskin or protection from magical or normal weapons, mirror image, blur, and sheild. Not to mention that some of these affects can by initiated by a cotingency all at once. Spirits I believe it would take many swings to break through the Wizards castlewall defense.

I admit the spells a cleric possess is quite formidable. But not as dangerous as a master of the Arcane Arts. Wizards have fireball, Abi Dalzms Horrid Wilting, Greater Malison, Chain Lightning. Take note that all the spells two spells I just mentioned are area affect spells. Which clerics have few of. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most or all of their area affect spells are defensive? It's true those of Divine have some deadly offensive spells. But a mage has hordes of spell protections. Now tell me this does a cleric have any spells that'd protect them no well besides magic resistance. Anything physical yes but not so effective as a *ahem* "Mageling". And not to mention mages become the most powerful class (save sorcerors) when they are at the peak of thier power!

I rest my case.

Slythe

well, there are a couple things that mages can't handle that a cleric does:

if a cleric tags them with miscast magic or silence, they're screwed unless there are scrolls of vocalize handy.

clerics have shield of the archons which isn't a bad spell protection, but certainly not like the plethora of mage protections.

holy smite is scary. SCARY. I'm just glad I haven't been on the receiving end of multiple smites, holy or not.

nature's beauty (admittedly a druid spell) turns everyone into fish in barrels.

ironskins can't be breached--again, druid only.

even so...gotta give it to the mage, just in how they were implemented in BG2.

The Amulet of Power takes care of the silence problem, and you get it relatively early in the game.

Holy Smite *is* scary... But not if you're good. ('Course, then Unholy Blight is scary. Miscast Magic is scary... but not if you make your save. It's still scary, though.)

You can dispel Iron Skins and SoTA with Spellstrike, can't you? (And mages get Spell Trap, too)

Nature's Beauty... Umm.. erm.... you got me there. That is the ultimate spell. If only the casting time wasn't so long...

And if we were considering druids, we'd have to mention the plethora of insect-related spells... but we're not.
I used to think the cleric was superior... but having played both extensively, I'm going to have to throw my support behind the mage.

remove or dispell magic.

spell strike does not take care of combat protections.

oh yeah...mages rule due to 5 spells...

minor sequencer, spell sequencer, contingency, spell trigger and chain contingency.

[ 01-27-2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Userunfriendly ]

Odd, I thought the age old question was mages or sorcerers? Oh well, I'll pitch my 2 cents in anyway [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Hands down, mages are better. It does not matter if clerics can use war hammers or wear plate mail armor for melee combat, mages still have the advantage.
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• They can cast Stoneskin, Spirit Armor, Mordenkainen's Sword, Melf's Minute Meteors, Protection from Normal/Magical Weapons, and Haste to level out the playing field.</font>
• Against spells, Spell Trap, Spell Turning, Protection from the Elements, Globe of Invulnerability, and so on.</font>

Saying that spell casters are disadvantaged in head to head combat is not accurate, take Jon Bon for example, it doesn't stop him any. True Sight may not be able to bypass Magic Resistance and clerics wouldn't be able to cast their spells because they can't see them or because they have no spells that penetrate spell protections.

I think the only real advantage clerics have is the insect spells and miscast magic, other than that, can't really think of anything.

Winner: Mage :D

I prefer a combination of the two. The cleric mage has many plusses:

Can cast more spells/day than any other class, even if you compare equal experience points instead of equal levels (except for the period when the mage has Wish and the cleric/mage doesn't).

Can put cleric spells into sequencers and contingencies along with mage spells for some nice combo's.

Can use all the mage defensive spells and sequencers, then don full plate and wade into the fray, casting cleric spells at will.

The downside is that he levels slowly, and won't access the higher level spells as fast as a single class, or max out his highest level spells, but in ToB, he will hit C/M 25/20, giving him 3 level 7 cleric spells, and 2 level 9 mage spells.

Well... it's kinda pointless for me to make any further input in this extremely one-sided debate, since anybody who knows how the spells and machinations of BG2 work can tell you with calm confidence that the Mage has the edge over the Cleric.

Ooooh sure, the Cleric might win sometimes, but that is akin to saying a rock-wielding whelp can defeat a modern tank occasionally.

That said, Illumina Drathiran'ar, you concede defeat too easily. ;) Remember these spells anytime people mention the Druids.

Spell Immunity:Illusion

Spell Immunity:Conjuration

for those of you who simply don't know...
spell immunity illusion defeats blindness...

iirc, only one item in the game will stop blindness effects, besides si-illusion...jan's goggles...

and of course si-conjuration stops creeping doom...