RE: Why does god let it happen? Divine plan?

[skywalker]

I'm so glad you are posting again Dio. I for one have missed your POV!

Mark

Originally posted by DioCheetah: This is Dio........... (Cheetah is pretty fact free on the below... ) Just wanted to address this quickly before conking out for the night, but this is a bit of oft repeated propaganda of the religious right in America that, historically, amounts to complete hogwash. The United States was founded by many people, of many different philosophies.

My two cents worth: I think that it is the widespread international acceptance of the ideal behind "The Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" that makes the Idea "God Bless America" great, not any particular religion, past or present.


[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 10-20-2001).]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by DioCheetah: This is Dio........... (Cheetah is pretty fact free on the below... ) Just wanted to address this quickly before conking out for the night, but this is a bit of oft repeated propaganda of the religious right in America that, historically, amounts to complete hogwash. The United States was founded by many people, of many different philosophies. The Puritans were only a small segment of the greater population that founded this country. At most, the Puritans can be said to have "founded" only the individual states of Massachusetts and Connecticut, as these were the areas which they settled and thereby created colonies. The other colonies, which became states, had very different origins. Virginia, for example, was created not by Puritans and not for religious purposes at all, but purely for reasons of economic gain by wealthy individuals who had the backing of the British throne. Virgina was founded for the purpose of large plantations to grow tobacco for export. All of the other colonies had similar secular origins, not for religious purposes at all. Hell, the puritan colonies of Massachusetts and Connecticut were not even the first to be settled -- Virginia was. And before Virginia at Jamestown in 1607 (Mass Bay Colony was not founded until later in 1620) the first English attempt to colonize the New World was at Roanoke in North Carolina in 1580, and that also was for purely secular purposes, to establish an English presence in the New World in an attempt to gain some of the riches that England's rivals like Spain had been reaping in Central and South America for years. As for the US being based on Biblical principles, that is another bit of religious right untrue propaganda. What is the creating document behind the US gov't? Plainly, it is the US constitution. The US constitution had little or nothing to do with "biblical principles." Instead, it represented the culmination of a branch of political philosophy which can be traced at least as far back as the works of such English philosophers as John Locke. The issues it addresses, namely the relations of the people to their government, the rights of the people against their government, and the structure of that government, has nothing to do with anything in the Bible. If I am wrong, please quote chapter and verse which address said issues. Furthermore, the men called affectionately today as "the Founding Fathers" were certainly NOT in any way shape or form "Puritans" or religious fundamentalists. The provisions which they put into the constitution regarding religious freedom actually flew in the face of what the Puritans who arrived on the Mayflower at Plymouth Rock would have liked. It is commonly recognized that those Puritans left England to practice their own religion. It is not so widely known, but equally true, that as soon as they got over to their new land they set about trying to force that same religion on any and everybody else.

Dio while I agree with you on the constitution and the Puritans. I do beleive that there were other groups Quakers, Amish and the like that may not have "founded" the specific colony or colonies came over to said colonies for religous freedom. Oh yeah there seems to me there is a document about WHY this rollercoaster ride we call the USA was started, and it states something about inalienable rights granted by a Creator.



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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[John D Harris]

Back to the original post while I believe that God does have a plan, and He is always on His throne, I'm not sure what His plan is in detail, since no nails pierced my hands or feet and no Crown of throne was placed on my head. I have some ideas, but the exact reasons are way above my pay scale.

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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[DioCheetah]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Back to the original post while I believe that God does have a plan, and He is always on His throne, I'm not sure what His plan is in detail, since no nails pierced my hands or feet and no Crown of throne was placed on my head. I have some ideas, but the exact reasons are way above my pay scale.

Um, what's a Crown of Throne? (Puzzled little cat scratches head and looks at floor miserably, sure that she has missed something crucial here..... )




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[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by DioCheetah: Um, what's a Crown of Throne? (Puzzled little cat scratches head and looks at floor miserably, sure that she has missed something crucial here..... )

Crown of Thorns is what he meant to write.

He's referring to the head dress made from twigs with thorns on them that was placed on the head of Jesus during the crucifixion.


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"The Martyr" (excerpt)

There is sobbing of the strong,
And a pall upon the land;
But the People in their weeping
Bare the iron hand:
Beware the People weeping
When they bare the iron hand.

--Herman Melville (written after the assasination of President Abraham Lincoln)

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by DioCheetah: Um, what's a Crown of Throne? (Puzzled little cat scratches head and looks at floor miserably, sure that she has missed something crucial here..... )

A typo



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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!