Time to bite the bullet on home security

[Sir Goulum]

Originally posted by Davros: As to the fingerprinting - it ain't never going to go away now. It is in, and it will be in to stay. It will spread too - it won't be long (I give it less than 5 years) before the majority of the world's nations adopt the same measures as the states have brought in. Some will do it on a tit for tat basis and some because of rational thinking, but Pandora's box is open now and the lid won't get replaced anytime soon.

Why do you say that?

[Davros]

Simple really Sir G, but better answering a question with a question. Do you see us winning a terror based campaign against muslim fundamentalism ever?

If you can't answer that in the positive then there wil always be a need for this sort of security measure. Now if the US is succesful in stopping more majot attocks on its shores through measures like this then it will be the efectiveness of the measures that gets adopted in like minded countries. If the US fails to stop a major attack then other nations like OZ and Britian will say "at the very least we need to be putting in the US system - it's not perfect but it must be better than nothing".

On the "tit for tat" front, there will be a lot of political parties that will make mileage in election years out of the concept of doing to Americans (ie fingerprinting) what they would have done to us. People of the world don't like in general the concept of someone getting a poorer deal on things. Never understimate the political will for the "evener-upper".

So there you go - that is why I say it is too late and that this thing will gain more and more momentum. My thinking something doesn't make it right, but if looks like a duck and it sounds like a duck then it's probably a duck. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

It's more fundamental than even Davros recognizes, Sir Golum. According to Hayek, and I agree with him, once the government begins infringing on your life, it can't stop. Deficit spending on welfare was introduced in the depression, and the government has not been able to stop since, despite the fact that it breaks the economic model if they don't. Safety belt laws were introduced, impinging your most personal of freedoms, and they will never go away. Simply put, once the government starts regulating you in a particular way, it cannot stop. Think of the government as a crack addict, and think of every new regulation imposed on you as yet another nice piece of rock.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Too bad, D1, that you decided not to visit. If you get out Chicago way ever, I'll be glad to buy you a beer or four. BTW, I had to get no less than 4 photo ID's made in London. Everything from ISIC card to underground card. I thought it overly-regulatory, but I didn't complain because I was visiting someone else's land, and even being there was a privilege, not a right.

It wasn't an easy decision to make. I first visited the US in 1982 and have been there 12 times on holiday.

I do understand why you are doing it at the same time I can't help feeling that I don't wan't to go to a country which makes me feel unwelcome.

The business about your London ID's is extremely misleading. You must have one photo made for your London Transport pass. That photo goes onto your ID and you get to keep it. It isn't kept on file. And you don't HAVE to have one to use the transport system. You can use cash, the photocard allows you to travel cheaply. If LT didn't issue them, travel pass tickets could be passed from person to person. The other ID cards would have been issued in the same manner.

Being in our country is NOT a right but it's NOT a privilege. It's a two way street. When I invite friends to my house I don't feel it's a privilege for them OR a right,it's someway in between. If I go to a shop to spend my money it isn't a privilege.

BTW - I hope to visit Canada next year, including a visit to Lake Erie, I'll gladly share those drinks with you (on the Canadian side of the border of course!)

BTW - if you know anyone who wants to buy a property in Lake Buena Vista FL, really cheap please let me know!



[ 10-04-2004, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

[Chewbacca]

I just crossed in and out via Canada twice in the last week. They didn't even ask for ID and hardly looked twice both times we re-entered the U.S.

We could have had God knows what or who in the car and alls it took was stating our citizenship was American and stating we didnt buy anything in Canada to allow passage. The border crossings each took less than one minute. Anyone in a car with American tags and who can pull-off an "American" sounding accent could do the same thing just as easily it seems.

Of course I dunno if the Canadians passed along info concerning our passage from Buffalo into a database to be checked when we re-entered in Detroit or what goes on behind the scenes.

I half-figured my ass-length long-hair, scraggly beard, and not quite "white" skin would at least warrant a check with the drug sniffing dogs.

Of course, now I am confused... I dunno if I should bitch loudly becasue they didn't check hard enough AT ALL or be relieved that it wasn't a total fiasco. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

[quote]Originally posted by Donut:

BTW - if you know anyone who wants to buy a property in Lake Buena Vista FL, really cheap please let me know!

How cheap exactly? I know potential buyers who plan to retire sooner or later in that area...assuming you were even serious. PM me if so.

[Davros]

I guess I am more resigned to having to go through this fingerprinting thing sooner or later. Sometime in the next 3 years, my work will send me to the America's and route me to or through the states.

I can see where that is different from chosing to go on holidays Donut, but I am surprised knowing how much you enjoy the states and the place in Florida that you are taking such a hard line on this.

[wellard]

As I posted a month ago on this forum, this new law is the reason I decided not to visit the USA at the end of this month.

While I’m personally already on the police fingerprint list AND have had my full background checked for security clearance for work by the USA authority's, I still find the law offensive. Why should I put my family through this? The only way I can see this law being overturned or at least stopped being followed by other countries is by boycotting the USA tourism industry.

It is such a shame because I really wanted to see the USA.