Can we handle not being alone?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: So... remove the creator, and I think you heighten the odds of us being all there is.

Not necessarily. If the universe is infinite. . . [/QUOTE]Exactly. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

If the universe is truly infinite then every form of life exists in every possible way, shape, and form on an infinite number of worlds exactly like Earth. In fact, if the universe is truly infinite, then there are an infinite number of us chatting in the Current Events Forum of IronWorks on the internet... across the universe. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-02-2004, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Ronn_Bman]

STOP IT!

I'm scaring me....

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: So... remove the creator, and I think you heighten the odds of us being all there is.

Not necessarily. If the universe is infinite. . . [/QUOTE]I don't believe the universe is infinite. If it were infinite it would not be expanding. Expansion is increasing in size, area, dimension. An increase implies an existing limit, which is by definition FINITE.
It may expand infinitely - without end - but that doesn't make it infinite.

In any case, there is a scholl of thought that suggests the universal expansion is slowing, and will ulitmately result in "the big crunch".

In any case, the universe is not expanding, or it would already be where it is expanding into.

Also, "infinite" would be without beginning, for an origin is another finite parameter. Time being the fourth dimensional effect on an object.An object changes over time.

However, let's just say the universe is indeed infinite, that there is no end and no beginning to the universe, that it always was, always will be and just is.

If there is a creator, the odds of there being life are higher than if there is not, because there is no CHANCE in the equation, there is INTENT. Life spontaneously plopping into being ONCE all by itself is unlikely in the extreme. Twice? Three times? They are still odds with an impossible number of zeros to 1.

With a creator there are no odds. He could put life on as many planets as he pleases.

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by frudi_x: ah, but there is a designer - the laws of physics and chemistry. even lab tests that try to recreate the conditions on the primordial Earth, show that complex organic compounds, including aminoacids, form within days. if you have a lab the size of a planet and hundreds of millions of years at your disposal, self-replicating molecules will eventually form - the first step towards the emergance of life. life actually probably formed on earth several times, just to be wiped out by impacts powerful enough to sterilize the planet for hundreds or more years. after the period of the great bombardment ended, life as we know it today formed within a hundred million years, the first common ancestor with it's ~200 genes eventually giving rise to all the diversity of plant and animal species we see today. basicly, we now have a pretty good understanding of how life first came about on the primordial earth and it seems that emergance of life is inevitable given the right conditions for a sufficient amount of time. since the ingredients for life are pretty commonplace in the universe, it is actually quite ignorant to assume earth is the only planet anywhere to harbor life.

I fully agree with alot of what you posted here. Nicely articulated man [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

BUT

How can we be sure that the so-called 'laws' of physics have always been what they supposedly are now? And if the dynamics of physical forces can change, how has/does/will that affect the structure of our multiverse?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by frudi_x: quote: Especially if it is all chance and there is no designer.

ah, but there is a designer - the laws of physics and chemistry. even lab tests that try to recreate the conditions on the primordial Earth, show that complex organic compounds, including aminoacids, form within days. if you have a lab the size of a planet and hundreds of millions of years at your disposal, self-replicating molecules will eventually form - the first step towards the emergance of life.
life actually probably formed on earth several times, just to be wiped out by impacts powerful enough to sterilize the planet for hundreds or more years. after the period of the great bombardment ended, life as we know it today formed within a hundred million years, the first common ancestor with it's ~200 genes eventually giving rise to all the diversity of plant and animal species we see today.[/QUOTE]I see you replicated the conditions of primordial earth. Even adding a congnisant brain (a human one in this case) to assemble the compenents and thus initiate the sequence. How interesting.

"Probably" in science doesn't really hold much water I'm afraid. "probably' can be anything, and used by all sides and all theories. "Probably" doesn't solve anything.

basicly, we now have a pretty good understanding of how life first came about on the primordial earth and it seems that emergance of life is inevitable given the right conditions for a sufficient amount of time. since the ingredients for life are pretty commonplace in the universe, it is actually quite ignorant to assume earth is the only planet anywhere to harbor life.

The "right conditions" are the whole miracle. A little bit closer to the sun, a little less of this, a little more of that. There are so many variables, and yet you're washing over the most complex aspect: the recipe.

I'm sure that fish inevitably cooks over a fire too, but who or what is going to ignite that fire?

It is only "ignorant" to make assumptions you have no possible way of proving. Assumptions are dangerous perpetuations of ignorance. Better to be happy with not knowing than to make statements of certain fact based on "probables" and "assumptions".

As for the laws of physics and chemistry being the designer.... you miss the point. The laws are the parametres. The method. The roadmap. The pathways. The boundaries. They are not the instigator I am referring to. They are as much a product of creation as anything else.

In any case, to quote the far side..."So we know how. How is not the question we need answered. We need to know why. Why now brown cow?"

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Yorick: With a creator there are no odds. He could put life on as many planets as he pleases.

Or she

Or it

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[Jonas Strider]

Infinite and finite. I have a hard time understanding those two words. I try to cram all these images of different possibilities, to get a better picture of those two words, and it just boggles my human mind.

Now back to life on other planets or somewhere. Good link Mouse regarding the Fermi Paradox. One of the questions it asks is, why haven't extraterrestial life made contact yet with us. Who knows? Maybe they don't find us interesting, or we are not yet ready, or they see it might have bad affects for both beings. Or just maybe they are there in front and around us all these times yet we don't have the capacity to sense, to feel, or conscious enough to see them. Maybe they vibrate at a different frequency, and we just need to step up our own. Hint and a half for all our arses: Get wiser! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by The Hierophant: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: With a creator there are no odds. He could put life on as many planets as he pleases.

Or she

Or it

[img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]

[John D Harris]

nice link Mouse, we could be the most advanced life in the galaxy everybody else is at the caveman stage and that is why we are not getting any radio transmitions, why is it the automatic assumption that there is life out there more advanced then us? We maybe IT folks, the top of the heap, the big kahuna, number 1, The man with the plan.

[Mouse]

Small hint - this topic is about the possibility of life existing elsewhere in the universe. Let's keep it that way.