Cheney on Gay Marriage

[The Hierophant]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: I would say that at least half of America's "family units" do not meet the "traditional definition" (and I'm probably being overly generous in that esitmate).

Well, I'd argue that 'nuclear' families arn't all that traditional anyway. The almost neurotic Protestant obsession with them is very new, only a few centuries old really. I think that the nuclear family movement has done more damage to 'Western' society than good. Where once families were a predominantly 'loose' shared social phenomena, the nuclear family compartmentalised and segregated a child's upbringing. The nuclear system insists a doctrine of 'these are my kids' and 'those are your kids', as opposed to 'these are the kids of our caste/class/community'. If the pervasive belief of 'nuclear families as natural' (and they arn't natural, indeed so-called 'natural' social systems are little more than artifical moral inventions)is removed, the stigma and pressure to maintain nuclear units is lessened, and in turn alot of the 'negative' effects of not fitting the imposed ideal are negated. A biological mother and father are not as important as father and mother figures, which every person in society can participate in being for a child, whether hetero or homo sexual.

Now here comes my social engineering rant...
It's a question of manipulating the 'sheep' of society (ie: those of 'servant' mentality that look to 'master' figures for direction and guidance. -As an example, there wouldn't be no presidential elections if Americans truly wanted to be their own masters... instead social authority and the responsibility thereof is bestowed upon chosen 'rulership specialists'-) into a re-aligned perception of nature... this re-alignment will of course be just as artifical as such any other 'natural' worldview that had gone before, but it will be one that fits more neatly with contemporary trends (in technology, changing demography, changing rhythms of work and industry etc). Instead of furiously clinging on to dying traditions in the face of changing circumstances, adapt the tradition, and the mentality behind that tradition, to waltz more gracefully with the changing world. This takes decades, even centuries of inter-generational direction. It's a gradual process, but a necessary one.

[ 08-27-2004, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: The Hierophant ]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Jonas Strider: Well well well. I have a new found respect for Dick Cheney since this event. He does have a heart.

I could go anywhere with that statement. That was a gift, and I thank you for it, even if I don't think I'll use it. I'll just sit, knowing it's there.

Aaron- You is S-M-R-T.

Cerek- Good on you. Usually people with strong beliefs fail to recognize that church and state are seperate entities... I respect you for noticing that barrier.

[Oblivion437]

I'll hold back my own opinion on the gay marriage issue, insomuch as how I feel about homosexuals marrying in general, but I will say this:

Marriage is a contract and lifelong committment (outside of Hollywood and Washington DC, anyway, unless you're Charlton Heston) between two people. At no point should the government be involved in any way in this contract. Out of the marriage hall, and out of the bedroom I say!

I may not approve and I may even hate homosexuals, but that doesn't give me the right to use government force to ruin their lives.

[Timber Loftis]

Uncle Dad and my mother taught me gay marriage was amoral.

[Oblivion437]

Yeah, well I may feel that way as well (I won't really throw down that gauntlet) but I don't think that it's any of my damn business, or the government's damn business...

I deplore drug use (it's destroyed more than one person I've cared a lot about) but I don't think the government is doing the right thing in banning drugs, it seems to make the situation worse.

PS, Uncle Dad? That ain't right!

[Gnarf]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: PS, Uncle Dad? That ain't right!

Awfully close to that point, now, methinks [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Oblivion437: PS, Uncle Dad? That ain't right!

Cept'n if you be from Alabama

[JrKASperov]

Gay Marriage? No.

A different union under the law that legally binds gay people? Yes!

Marriage is a Christian foundation, and despite the fact that as Cerek, I consider it a sin, I believe we shouldn't mess with that, just as I don't mess with eating meat and calling it Ramadan.

[Stratos]

Marriage existed before Christianity was founded, and is found in basically all religions.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: Gay Marriage? No. A different union under the law that legally binds gay people? Yes! Marriage is a Christian foundation

Except the government issues marriage certificates...