Why are SUV owners......??

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Yo, Yorick, all the SUV's in the entire world, don't emit half the polution that the worlds people fart, belch, piss and defacate into the environment.

Incorrect fact. Based on a misrepresented set of facts. Put together by industry zealots and designed just so you can pick up on it easily and spout it as truth when it is not. Thanks for playing, though.

Fart = methane. Hmmmm.... you know, a factory would need to put out 100 tons per year of methane before it even has to get a permit. And, you dare compare all those permitted factories to people farting? Think about it for a second, just think. We can take piss and defacate in order if you like, but as you can guess they work out like fart.

Besides we piss/defecate into a treatment works that at least tries to recycle every last bit that can be recycled. [/QUOTE]
TL TL TL [img]smile.gif[/img] now now, I was talking SUV's not factories. Secondly I believe I read a report some 3 or 4 years ago about the methane produced by the human population...trust me the amount of gasses produced was enourmous. (I will attempt to look up the study though...and no, I hve no idea why I was researching flatulence [img]smile.gif[/img]

Now about the waste products, how many countries effectively treat the waste of their citizens? Ill bet more people poop in untreated areas than not [img]smile.gif[/img]
Sorry The total number of SUV's in the world is too small to be a significant factor sorrry to say...I will also go looking for SUV sales figures when I get the chance. I know it isn't even close to 600,000,000 which is just 10% of the world population.

Originally posted by pritchke: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Try fitting 4 dogs, 2 kids and a girlfriend into a prius. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Buy a mini van!! More affordable, cheeper on gas and insurance, even has more room than most of the SUV's. Easile fit 7 big men, and can still put the 4 dogs in the back. Hell take the smaller seats out fit 5 big men and your 4 dogs can have room to play around in the back.

I have no problem with people buying SUV's. I have been looking at them myself but can't find a reason to buy them over a minivan. I just don't think they are a smart choice financially or environmentally. If I were in the Yukon, or Alaska and used alot of muddy back roads yah of course they may be worth it, but than I would have to compare them to a 4x4 pickup truck.

I see people buy SUV's and they they can barly afford to feed themselves. Alot of people buy SUV's for status only. [/QUOTE]
And get stuck in just 3" of snow with no way to get out but to wait for help. Sorry don't cut it. (and yes we get snow here.) I actually drive a gas guzzeling Sports car, but my other half has a Jeep for just such snowey emergencies...and other issues.

[ 01-19-2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Yo, Yorick, all the SUV's in the entire world, don't emit half the polution that the worlds people fart, belch, piss and defacate into the environment.

Errr, but we could drive cleaner cars, and we couldn't stop any of the above.

Everyone is going to die so what does it matter to kill people! People die all the time naturally so it doesn't matter if humans do it artificially as well!

Sorry MagiK but I can't see how that defends your point in any way, even if its true which TL doesn't seem to think it is. [/QUOTE]My point was that aside from people themselves I can think of 50 things that are of more immenent impact than SUV's. The fact is..SUV's are not on the top 1000 most dangerous problems face by this world. The Sheer number of SUV's in the world is insignificant compared to REAL problems. Focusing hate on a non-issue like SUV's is just an intellectually dishonest way of skirting real issues. SUV's are not this world problem. Look elsewhere.

Preliminary numbers of SUV's sold in the last three years in the US and Canada....less than 2,000,000. The top three Automakers sold together last year 219,000 SUV's (this includes Pickups which I don't think belong in the SUV catagory). Another number that turns up, 1 SUV on the planet for every 10,000,000 people....I'll post links when I have firm numbers from a trusted source, these are from biased industry sources.

[ 01-19-2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[pritchke]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by pritchke: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Try fitting 4 dogs, 2 kids and a girlfriend into a prius. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Buy a mini van!! More affordable, cheeper on gas and insurance, even has more room than most of the SUV's. Easile fit 7 big men, and can still put the 4 dogs in the back. Hell take the smaller seats out fit 5 big men and your 4 dogs can have room to play around in the back.

I have no problem with people buying SUV's. I have been looking at them myself but can't find a reason to buy them over a minivan. I just don't think they are a smart choice financially or environmentally. If I were in the Yukon, or Alaska and used alot of muddy back roads yah of course they may be worth it, but than I would have to compare them to a 4x4 pickup truck.

I see people buy SUV's and they they can barly afford to feed themselves. Alot of people buy SUV's for status only. [/QUOTE]
And get stuck in just 3" of snow with no way to get out but to wait for help. Sorry don't cut it. (and yes we get snow here.) I actually drive a gas guzzeling Sports car, but my other half has a Jeep for just such snowey emergencies...and other issues. [/QUOTE] You are not going to get stuck in 3 inches of snow unless your tires are frozen onto the road with a small layer of ice underneath. Snow is not problamatic unless you are driving on roads that are not used that often. I didn't mention Alaska, and the far north because of snow but because there are many back roads, and many people are not going to have roads plowed up there due to remoteness, plus there is not constant usage of these roads. The north american city that has the most annual snowfall I believe is Cornerbrook. Most people there don't need SUV's and 4X4's to get around, they don't pay property taxes, for nothing.

[ 01-19-2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Originally posted by pritchke: That's what people in Toronto say as well. Than again they put the city on emergency alert and called the army in when they got a few flurries. You are not going to get stuck in 3 inches of snow unless your tires are frozen onto the road with a small layer of ice.

In toronto they know how to clear the roads. In DC 3" of snow will stick anyone with less than 6 or 7 inches of clearence. You assume an even distribution. I live through this every single year guy... I know what I SEE.

I have also lived in Equatorial climes and in the Artic environs, so I know a little bit about the differences in how things affect different areas and how they are handled.


NOW, for a TRUTH about SUV's. There are a SHITLOAD of rabid slavering anti-SUV websites all of them spouting rhetoric, .....so many that it is HARD to find real statistics. THis is a tougher research project that I imagined. But I shall persevere.


[ 01-19-2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[pritchke]

Your correct about an even distribution, I did not take drifts, winds and such into account. Yet I didn't take a coupon the other day as including Friday as part of the weekend.

Yes, the anti-SUV's websites are a bit much and I would not believe half on them. SUV's are not even being marketed the same, people should buy what they need and be careful of advertisements for hockey Moms. The SUV does tend to guzzle more gas but that is common knowledge and it probably isn't as bad as those web sites make it seem.

There are still tons of people driving old cars from the 70's and 80's without upgraded engines. These are probably more damaging than SUV's and less safe but hardly anyone kicks up a fuss about them.

Some cities are offering a yearly bus pass or free bike to give them your old vehicle (more than the vehicle is worth and that tells you how bad they are). Yet no one kicks up a fuss about these vehicles.

There are probably far more gas guzzling pickups on the road yet no one kicks up a fuss about them. Granted most pickup's are generally usually used for its intended purpose and not just to boot around town for a joy ride and is often a secondary vehicle.



[ 01-19-2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

Ok here are some stats that should be reasonably believable. As I see no reason why the industry would lie about the sales figures.

Most recent Stats available are for the year 1999.
Canada:

• Pickup Truck Sales: 226,822
• SUV Sales: 179,192
• Vans: 281,659
• for a Grand Total of: 687,653

USA:

• Pickup Truck: 3,193,458
• SUV: 3,218,503
• Vans: 1,759,510
• Total of: 8,171,471

Note these numbers are considerably higher than the ones that I found on some of the rabid raving anti-SUV sites. So, I am surprised about that. Now to continue.

Fact. Since the year 1970 emissions in Light and Heavy Duty personal vehicles (which includes SUV's)
have seen Hydro Carbon, CO2 and NOx emissions cut in half. (only talking Gasoline here not Diesel)

Fact. Cars newer than 1995 combined put out less environmental pollution that do older makes and models used in countries out side the USA and Canada and parts of Europe. estimates range from 50 to 80% of all vehicular emissions come from these older vehicles AND a group of vehicles called "Gross Emitting Vehicles" these GEV's are those semi's, and Delivery trucks and Diesel powered vehicles that we all see spewing black smoke from their exhaust ports.

(This little tidbit says that SUV's are not the problem but the GEV's are.)

I can go on and on about this, the information is hard to find through all the enviro-wackos on the web but here are some of the links I used to get this info.

http://www.jama.org/statistics/
http://www.dot.gov/
Automotive Industry info on North america
Industry Emissions information


There were a couple of others but I can't find them again. As I said..the junk pages make it hard to find good info.


Now for my own observations. The rhetoric and hate spewed about SUV's remind me of the hate and rhetoric spewed by groups such as the KKK, the Neo Nazi's and the "Save the South American Rain forest" extremist groups. All three have been soundly beaten down because they have been proven wrong, or to be frauds. Just as Sattelite photo's show us that there is more forested area in Brazil now than there was 12,000 years ago, I am sure that a true count of the numbers and facts will show the Anti-SUV ... fanatics will be shown wrong.

Oh by the way...I do get irritated when I see one person riding around in a GIGANTIC sized SUV...now if one person is riding around in a RAV 4 (a true SUV) thats a different matter, Light Duty SUV's are getting nearly as good gas mileage as regular cars AND their emissions are counted the same.

When and if one starts finding themselves moved to protest SUV's....ask your self...why are you not protesting the GEV's? They are the true problem.


Pritchke, what I found to be common on the anti-SUV sites I perused in looking for figures, I noticed that about 1/4 of them counted pickups as SUV's.

To Be honest Pickups and SUV's are classified as different types of vehicles, as are heavy duty trucks. (the Larger Dodge and Fords for example)

[ 01-19-2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[John D Harris]

They can come for my old fullsized (8ft bed) beat up GMC pick-up truck any time they want. But they had better come in something bigger then a car, cause my Detroit steel bumpers will rip'em to shreads. [img]smile.gif[/img]

oh yeah, they better bring lots of ammo also, cause they are going to be there awhile.