Is spanking a child inappropriate? (opinions)

[johnny]

No, you're right Mel, i don't have any kids, but i'm right on top of things with my bro, who has a 7 year old son, and a few friends of mine, who are also parents, and i know out of first hand what the trouble with those little ones can be. They can drive you completely nuts when they don't get what they want, and sometimes a spanking is the thing they seem to understand.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about hitting a child, but a mere thwack in the bottocks, which doesn't even really hurt, but they'll usually get the message. They start crying as if they're in a lot of pain, but we all know that's just a little act. Hell, i was little too, i did the same thing when i got what i had coming to me.

[Paladin2000]

Originally posted by Melusine: Why do you assume that the people who are anti-spanking have no children and the ones that are pro-spanking do? Johnny argues for spanking, yet to my knowledge is not raising children (correct me if I'm wrong Johnny!!) and there are also plenty of families in which the parents do not spank on principle. Also, you suggest people who spank their children do so because they "cannot control their tempers". Yet I've seen many people argue for spanking as a punishment, but only doing it AFTER THEY'VE COOLED DOWN. They agreed that hitting a child out of frustration is wrong, and the spanking should be applied cool-headedly. So the "wait till you have kids of your own" argument doesn't hold water, nor does the uncontrollable temper one. I'm not gonna get too mixed up in this can of worms any further, BTW, the last debate on it is still very fresh in my mind.

All that I was saying is that is easy to argue that anti-spanking in theory but went comes to real life, *sigh* is another story altogether.

It is like saying ...bal bla bla...death sentence is bad...bla, bla, bla. Wait until the victim of the crime happens to be someone close to you. (on an unrelated example)

And from what I have witnessed so far (from my friends and relatives), most of them spanked thier kids when they are mad. Yes, of course everyone will say the opposite but based on my observant, this is relatively true.

I spanked my daughter when I was mad. Very very mad. After I have cooled down, I felt sorry for what I did. I can argue that this the kind of punishment she deserved for misbehaving badly but out from my heart, I know that I spanked her because I lost control of my temper. If I had cooled down earlier, I would have confined her to the room or something.

As I remembered my childhood, most of my spankings occured when I made my parents loose their temper, although I can't say that *ALL* the parents spank their children while in their worst possible mood, but I am sure a certain percentage of that is true.

Until I can master the art of purging my emotion through Vulcan meditation, I will spank my daughter from time to time; when she drives me crazy. I am not proud of what I did, but I did it nonetheless.

PEACE. LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.

[ 08-10-2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Paladin2000 ]

[Melusine]

Yes, but remember that your argument STILL isn't always valid. There *are* plenty of people who are perfectly capable of upholding their principles about not spanking, even if they do have children. It's interesting actually that you bring up the death penalty example. I remember very vividly that someone on this forum completely went of his rocket towards another member in a topic about capital punishment. Member one was pro-death penalty, member two was against it. Member one started yelling in an offensive and arrogant manner at member two, stating that member two had no idea what he was talking about, and would change his opinion if something bad happened to one of HIS loved ones. Sadly, I knew member two to have actually lost his wife to murder. In accordance with her views on the matter, he did not press for the murderer to be sentenced to death. All I'm saying is, don't be so quick to judge. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't have valid experiences on which they based their opinions.

Johnny, I'm not looking to argue with you on whether children should be spanked. I used you as an example because you often see the "wait until you have kids of your own" argument, and I was merely looking to demonstrate that people with kids can be anti-spanking, and people without kids can be pro.
And actually, your argument of "well I don't have kids but I have close experience with it nonetheless from my brother/sister/friend/work" is one that is often dismissed by pro-spanking people, saying that it's not the same thing. I agree it isn't the same thing, actually, but I wouldn't discount someone's opinion on the matter simply because they have no kids of their own. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Paladin2000]

Honestly, my posts were about my opinion and it was not my intention to convince to people here that spanking is a valid punishment.

For what it is worth, it is your child/children. You dealt with them by any means you see fit and I did the same for myself.

All that I was trying to say is that sometimes things are easier said than done and not all of us will be able to hold on to our principles until we are presented to a real life situation.

[Faceman]

I DO agree that a lot of people argue on a lot of issues without sufficient information and/or experience but that does NOT exclude them from the right to have an opinion and it does NOT make them automatically wrong.

As for losing temper: I assume we are talking about "what is right" here not about "what is common". I don't consider it a very good argument to say: "I hit my child because sometimes I can't help it".

With that logic you could easily say that smoking is a good thing: "Wait until you get addicted and let's see you talking all reasonable about quitting then!"
The fact that you are to weak to stop does not make it right and the fact that your friends did not smoke in the first place does not make them wrong trying to make you quit.

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Paladin2000: All that I was trying to say is that sometimes things are easier said than done and not all of us will be able to hold on to our principles until we are presented to a real life situation.

Sure, I absolutely agree with you there. You've put it in a much more nuanced and general way than before. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Faceman, well said, the part about "I can't help it, lost my temper" not being a good argument in favour of spanking. It's an explanation why people do it, yes, but in a thread about whether spanking is a good thing, you're not helping your argument by saying you spank when you're angry and regret it afterwards.

[ 08-10-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]

[Paladin2000]

Originally posted by Faceman: I DO agree that a lot of people argue on a lot of issues without sufficient information and/or experience but that does NOT exclude them from the right to have an opinion and it does NOT make them automatically wrong. As for losing temper: I assume we are talking about "what is right" here not about "what is common". I don't consider it a very good argument to say: "I hit my child because sometimes I can't help it". With that logic you could easily say that smoking is a good thing: "Wait until you get addicted and let's see you talking all reasonable about quitting then!" The fact that you are to weak to stop does not make it right and the fact that your friends did not smoke in the first place does not make them wrong trying to make you quit.

Again, mind you that we are posting here base on our opinion hmmmm? My previous posts were base on my opinion. As such, I do not wish to argue that my opinion is right. (sorry if the my previous posts were not clear enough)

Is it right to spank your child/children? You decide. If you think it is right to do so, who is going to stop you? if you think it is wrong, no one is going to hold a gun against you and force you to do it.

I know that many of you were offended by my previos post regarding "Wait till you have your own kid(s)". But I was just stating the fact (from my opionion, again) that sometimes, things are easier said than done.

Again, It is not my intention to pass judgement on people just because they have no experince of parenthood. If any of you are offended by that statement, I am truly sorry for that.

[ 08-10-2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Paladin2000 ]

[Faceman]

I agree with you to some extent Paladin.
It actually IS everybody's own decision how to raise his/her children and I am good with that. I am NOT (at least I hope so) going to punish my kids physically once I get kids (which I plan to some day).
I also would not advise anybody to do so but my main point is that IF you spank your children then losing temper is the worst occasion for it. Normally in my arguments I use family as the smallest society to describe problems in big society. I am now going to reverse that

Your child has the right to a fair trial AND a well-considered sentence=punishment. Hitting a child because of losing temper is similar to lynching and I'm sure we all know a ton of arguments why that is bad.

IF you decide to use physical punishment on your child at least do it for his/her educational sake and not to vent your rage. I know that this is difficult and unrealistic because who would want to hit his own child after he/she has cooled off but that's exactly the point. Punishment IS an educational measure and will be necessary sometime. So give it good thought and don't screw it up in the heat of the game.

[Grendal]

Im joining this kinda late but what the hell....I have to laugh as I read this. I have read posts on this thread calling spanking everything from innapropriate to physical assult to destructive violence. Oh come on!!! Mr Mopery opened this thread with the understanding that we were NOT discussing beatings. A nice firm slap on the ass is in some circumstanses is EXACTLY what a child needs for you to get his attention. My son is now six, I think I have slapped his butt twice in his life, but he sure knows that when daddy speaks that daddy means what he says! I for one was raised in a "children are to be seen and not heard" type family. I am not like that whatsoever but I WILL NOT be ignored, talked back to, or let my son show any disrespect to an adult (especially me or his mother). My son is a well adjusted, friendly little boy that ppl just love to be around. Unlike kids whos parents have never raised a hand or a voice to them and they run the house, are rude, and have no respect for anything. IMO kids need authority in their lives and yes possibly a smack or two to get their attention when needed.

[ 08-10-2003, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Grendal ]

[johnny]

originally by Faceman Your child has the right to a fair trial AND a well-considered sentence=punishment. Hitting a child because of losing temper is similar to lynching and I'm sure we all know a ton of arguments why that is bad.

I'd like to see your reaction when your seven year old son comes home from school, and calls his mother "kankerlijer" when she tells him not to throw stuff through the house. I'm not sure how to translate that word into English, but take it from me, it's BAD, really really bad.

It happened to a friend of mine, and i was there when it happened. Apparently he picked that up in the school's playground, and decided it might be useful whenever he was being told not to do this or that around the house. My mouth fell wide open when i heard him say that, and so did my fiend's and his wife's.

But only for a brief moment, and then he slapped him a couple of times and told him it would be worse if he ever heard him say that word again. I don't think ANY parent can keep his/her cool when your kid calls you names like that, and imo there's only one way to teach him not do say that ever again.