Amulet of power

[Imrahil]

I'm thinking we're way beyond spoilers at this point, but still...
.
.
PLOT SPOILERS...
.
.
.
The Vampires are out to collect humans (& demi-humans, though there are few) to either recruit into the Vampire Guild as Vampires or use as sacrifices for Irenicus (Rapture of the Father). They give no choice in the matter - they take away free will.

This is, IMO, less evil than the Shadow Thieves. If you don't take over Mae'Var's guild, you have no evidence that the ST are even willing to be involved in slavery (& even then, it could be viewed that *you* are the only Guildmaster that can initiate an involvement in slavery).

All you know for certain is that they rob & steal on a regular basis... which admittedly makes them "bad people" (for lack of a better phrase), but there's no evidence that they are involved in slavery, murder, or even extortion unless you choose to "remake the Guild in your own image" & that happens to be your image.

If you never take over Mae'Var's Guild, you'd never even know that much. For all you know, they are just pickpockets, which I imagine many characters, even Good characters, have indulged in to their benefit.

The Vampires, on the other hand, are known from the first couple of City Encounters to be Evil - enslaving, kidnapping, & murdering (Mook? either path you take) those who won't join willingly.

I'm not saying a Good PC couldn't find a reason to side with Bodhi, but it's very clear, IMO, that the ST are the "lesser of two evils" path. If you take over a Thieves Guild, you can make it just as Evil, of course, but there's no evidence *in the game* that the ST are inherently Evil, just Chaotic.

- Imrahil

[Q'alooaith]

Explore the ST compound a bit more, you'll find aran's personal pain technician and his aprentice...


In most fiction vampire's are steril, so they have to take people by force to continue as a race..

They need to drink blood to live, I'm sure many food animals would consider human's evil for eating them..


Now the theives don't need to steal, though it's not evil, they do force their member's loyalty, anyone who crosses the shadow theives don't wake up the next morning ring any bells?

The vampires do what they do because they need to, the theives because they want to..


And that's the whole point of the two sides, look at it how you want and choose who YOU think is the lesser evil... one of the few where the line is blured, there should have been far more moral choices with no clear moral line if you look deep enough...

[Balintherlas]

How many times do the same posts need to be stated?

[ElfBane]

Originally posted by Balintherlas: How many times do the same posts need to be stated?

This is an interesting discussion. Are vampires "evil" for what they do? They have no choice, no free will. That does not mean that we have to like them. People don't "like" to eaten by lions, but that doesn't make lions "evil". Essentially vampires are beasts. Shadow thieves are human and have free will.
BTW, I am aware of the vampire mythologies in which vampires have a choice in how and when and if they kill. In some mythologies the vampire doesn't have to kill the victim to survive.

[JrKASperov]

Vampires are unnatural. And besides eating humans, they enjoy instilling fear in humans and torturing them. That does make them evil.

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Nerull: I have long wished that there was an alternative to those two organizations (any modders want to pick it up and run with it?)

Way ahead youSee "Third Way".

[Zellis]

I think your all way to deep into this convosation

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

That's the beauty of threads. They can develop into longer and more interesting conversations than "Where can I get items and powers?"