Need a civilian casualty counter?

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Thoran: Quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: Here are some statistics for the first gulf war that include only military casualties: http://www.sci.fi/~fta/stats.htm Although they are not civilan death,s it twists my gut to think that upwards estimates of Iraqi casualities were in the 100,000 ballpark figure. Thats alot of dead sons and sad moms. I couldn't tell you if we could estimate the Iraqi death toll in the current conflict...but these stats make me wonder.

That was the high side... looks like one of the sources on that site estimated the casualties could be only in the low tens of thousands. That's not to say that it's OK that only 10,000 died, but compared to historical warfare it's relatively light IMO.[/QUOTE]Yes but the U.S. department of defense estimated 100,000, I saw one low figure around 7,000. Even if we take an average we get tens of thousands.

In relation to the current conflict this is quite a potential we are facing, especially considering the stiff Iraqi resistance and the absence of expected mass surrenders in the first week or so of the war. I wonder if our humanitarian aid packages will inclued grief counseling for potentially millions?

[Thoran]

Even tens of thousands are low casualties historically speaking. Even ignoring historical precedent, are 20,000 combatant casualties so horrible that we should let Saddam stay in power to continue murdering his own people? As John said... how many Civilian deaths will there need to be before fence sitters and opponents start supporting the war?

Kurds appeal for halt to ethnic cleansing in Iraq Saturday, 01-Feb-2003 1:20AM PST Story from AFP Copyright 2003 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ARBIL, Iraq, Feb 1 (AFP) - The Baghdad regime is continuing a policy of ethnic cleansing, a Kurdish group charges in a letter to the United Nations obtained Saturday by AFP, which lists 117 families forcibily moved in January. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ClariNews – Just all the news you want! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Committee against the Arabisation of Kurdistan, affiliated to the opposition Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), calls for international pressure to be brought to bear against President Saddam Hussein "to stop displacing Kurdish families from areas under (Iraqi) control to Kurdistan." The appeal sent to UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and US President George W. Bush as well as human rights groups, asks for aid for the 117 families displaced from villages in the Kirkuk region to northern areas which have been outside Baghdad's control since the 1991 Gulf war. "These families face difficult living conditions in the rainy reason, some under tents in the KDP-controlled zone," the letter notes. Another opposition group, the Turkoman Brotherhood Party, based in Arbil, also condemned the displacement by Baghdad of 24 Turkoman families from the oil-rich Kirkuk area to Kurdistan and another 24 families to Faluja, in central Iraq. The Paris-based International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) charged in December that Iraq has committed "continuous and silent ethnic cleansing" against Kurds and Shiite Muslims, as well as forced assimilation of other minorities, and elimination of all forms of opposition. The Baghdad regime has forcibly displaced hundreds of thousands of people, with an estimated 800,000 living in the northern part of the country alone, it charged. More than 200,000 Iraqis have disappeared, FIDH said, adding that three to four million Iraqis out of a total population of 23 million had fled the country.

and for emphasis...

"More than 200,000 Iraqis have disappeared, FIDH said, adding that three to four million Iraqis out of a total population of 23 million had fled the country."

How much murder before enough is enough?

[ 03-28-2003, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]