Druid and Cleric mod, anyone think it's possible?

[Magness]

Dundee, I suppose that I could try to edit a set of plate male and try to get it to disable, say Paladin, spellcasting. But I'm not sure if it will work if neither DLTCEP nor NI recognize it.

Regardless, I'll give it a shot. It can't take more than a few minutes and I've got a multiplayer save game that I use for these sorts of simple tests.

[SimDing0]

You can have armour disable spellcasting for clerics but not druids, because while you can't distinguish between their spellbooks, you can distinguish between the actual classes. The armour can have an equipping effect targetted only on druids, for example, which disables casting.
However, cleric/rangers would be a problem, because you'd have to go the whole way and disable everything, or leave all spells available.

[ 01-10-2005, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: SimDing0 ]

[Q'alooaith]

thankyou SimDing0, you have anwsered my question I think..

Just you anwsered it a little backwards, but anyway the point was to make fighter/druids unable to cast while in any armour better than studded leather..

though I guess I'll have to do some more reading up to find out how..

[Magness]

SimDing0, I don't recall there being any items that implement this sort of thing. Can you describe how this is done, please?

[SimDing0]

There aren't any items which implement the exact effect, but the principle as actually the same as is used for, say, items which confer THAC0 or damage bonuses against certain enemy types.

The item has several equipping effects, all "Use EFF File". The parameters of these effects are set to target class.ids, and the various class combinations which include druid. You then create an EFF while which contains the actual effect to disable divine spellcasting, and have this as the resource for the effects on the item.

[ 01-10-2005, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: SimDing0 ]

[Andyr]

For an upcoming release of the Cleric Remix mod at G3 we plan to make armours heaver than Studded Leather unusable by Fighter-Druids. As it doesn't seem right that Clerics have to abide by their class restrictions when dualled/multid but Druids don't.

We also allow Cleric kits to summon the spiritual weapon of their deity once/day, which is a step towards freeing up their weapon restrictions. The alternative, going all the way as you mentioned, would be another possibility.

Sim's suggestion of patching certain items to disable casting would be an option for druids, though it'd involve knowing what items are allowed by different mods too...

[Magness]

Andyr, couldn't you write a WeiDU script, similar to the one you used for the Ferelan kit in Unfinished Business to add this sort of patch to any ITM file that had the item type of "Armor"? I assume that it would be possible to limit it to certain types of armor, like wanting to disable druidic spellcasting for plate, splint, or chain, but not for leather or hide.

Of course, this risks adding an disabling effect so some armors that actually want to allow spellcasting, like certain types of elven chain.

And, of course, you risk modifying Mod items and changing the intent of its creator.


Regarding clerics (or any other class) and weapon restrictons, where are those restrictions enforced? Aren't they simply enforced within the weapon item files themselves? If you simply mass script edited all weapon ITM files to remove the cleric unability, wouldn't this effectively remove the class based weapon restrictions?

Of course, if one wanted to go for a psuedo-3e feel, you'd need to edit the 2DA weapon prof files to allow those classes to gain some profs in the previously restricted weapons. Or, I suppose that one could leave the profs as is under the theory that (for example) a cleric can pick up and swing a sword, but they still have a class based aversion to normally using and training with such weapons. This seems conceptually reasonable. Mr Cleric can pick up the longsword, but will dislike using it and will have no skill with it. The 2e stuff that a cleric cannot even pickup and wield a sword (for example), even horribly, just seems wrong. For that matter, I think that even Cavaliers (for example) should be able to pick up and use a tradiitonal ranged weapon, like a bow, but shouldn't be allowed to have any skill in it (i.e. ZERO weapons profs). I would think that the penalties from having no skill in a given item, along with roleplaying the character, should be sufficient reason for a cleric (for example) to not want to wield a bladed weapon.

However, if one wanted to go fully 3e where anyone can wield anything, that works for me too.

[Andyr]

Yeh, I could use WeiDU to stop metal armours allowing casting - the code would be a more complex form of the code I am using locally at the moment to stop Druids equipping the items.

And yes, I could write a similar patch to allow Clerics to use all weapons. However:
- Ideally descriptions would need to be altered which causes compatability problems with other mods which alter descriptions.
- The mod would need to be install last so it could patch items added or altered by other mods.
- It would increase the power of the Cleric class.

Ghreyfain's Ashes of Embers mod at http://www.pocketplane.net allows all classes to use and gain proficienices in all weapons, which could be something akin to what you want. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'd be more inclined to your suggestion of being allowed to equip anything, but not place proficiency points in it.

Though I'd still like to stop Fighter/Druids from even wearing metal armour as it's based on principles rather than ability. So may be Clerics and weapons, some might say, though that's based on Christian history. The favoured weapons of many FR deities are ones which their Clerics are prohibited from wielding in BGII...

[Magness]

Andyr, it'd seem like preventing fighter/druids from wearing metal armor would be about the simplest modification. Wouldn't be basically the same sort of code as your Ferelan armor limiting WeiDu code? You'd just have to look for any metal armors and remove any usability for fighter/druids.

And I think that you could differentiate metal from non-metal armors by looking at the value of the ground icon. While that's no guarantee, it seems like the convention is that the ground icon BAM used is simply the "01" item for that type. If it's leather, studded, or hide armor, the ground icon BAM would/should be GLEAT01.BAM. GPLAT01.BAM for Plate, and GCHAN01.BAM for splint or chain.


You make a good point about having to run such a mod last. I was thinking the same thing. You can never now what changes might be made with subsequent mods, if they run after this one.

[Andyr]

The tp2 code I use is this. You can patch by type, which is useful, rather than filename. This helps with mods. [img]smile.gif[/img]

code:

---

//Fighter-Druid items

COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~

  SET "patch" = 0

  READ_BYTE 0x1F "fighter_druid"

  READ_BYTE 0x21 "druid"

  READ_BYTE 0x1C "type"

  WHILE ("%patch%" = 0) AND

        (("%druid%"  BAND 0b01000000) = 0b01000000) AND // If unusable by druids

        (("%type%" = 2) OR // Armor

        ("%type%" = 60) OR // Leather Armor

        ("%type%" = 61) OR // Studded Leather Armor

        ("%type%" = 62) OR // Chain Mail

        ("%type%" = 63) OR // Splint Mail

        ("%type%" = 64) OR // Half plate

        ("%type%" = 65) OR // Full plate

        ("%type%" = 67) OR // Robes

        ("%type%" = 66))   // Hide armor

  BEGIN

    WRITE_BYTE 0x1F ("%fighter_druid%" BOR 0b00010000) // Making sure Fighter-Druids are restricted to Druid items only.

    SET "patch" = 1

  END

BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

[/QUOTE]