Amulet of power

[JrKASperov]

They are vampires, 'nuff said... And I've done the thief stronghold, but found none of your claims. Especially not that slaver business, which is run by a totally different orginization...

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by ZFR: Siding with Bodhi does not make you lose any reputation whatsoever... In fact its okay roleplaywise to side with her even if youre Lawful Good because... why should the thieves be any less evil?

Because vampires are undead abominations whose sole purpose in unlife is to kill and cause pain and suffering. Thieves might do evil things, but not all of them are in and of themselves evil.
And while we're talking about roleplay wise, I'd like to remind everyone that if you really tried to align yourself against the Shadow Thieves, one morning you wouldn't wake up, simple as that. You couldn't drive them out of Athkatla, and they would follow you forever for doing such damage to them.

[ZFR]

Originally posted by JrKASperov: They are vampires, 'nuff said... And I've done the thief stronghold, but found none of your claims. Especially not that slaver business, which is run by a totally different orginization...

Slave smuggling is especially one thing that shadow thieves do...
When you tell the smuggler owhat to do one option is to have him smuggle slaves..
Illumnia... thieves do evil thing.. not 'might do' Talk to the locals about them... I'm not saying vampires arent evil they are.. but you also cant drive them completely out... and if you have to chose an evil you can just as well chose the vampires...
anyway discussion over from my part.

[Q'alooaith]

Both side's are "evil"

It's upto the player to decide who is the lesser evil..

While vampires can be lawfull, theives can never be lawfull..

[ElfBane]

Originally posted by ElfBane: If you align with Bohdi, your rep will take a serious drop.

Apparently I am wrong about the rep drop when aligning with Bohdi. I was sure I read that on these boards, my bad, I apologize.
Now, to the shadow thieves. They are involved in normal criminal activities. I am now running Mae'Var's guild (cause it's MINE now) and one of the things I did was not allow slaving. They run extortion and protection rackets, and are certainly not above murder. They are MUCH more than just "second story men". It's regular organized crime.

[LadyLuthien]

Originally posted by ZFR: Slave smuggling is especially one thing that shadow thieves do... When you tell the smuggler owhat to do one option is to have him smuggle slaves.. Illumnia... thieves do evil thing.. not 'might do' Talk to the locals about them... I'm not saying vampires arent evil they are.. but you also cant drive them completely out... and if you have to chose an evil you can just as well chose the vampires... anyway discussion over from my part. [/QB]

You have the OPTION of smuggling slaves, yes. The Shadow Thieves still weren't responsible for the slave operations in the Copper Coronet, to the best of my recollection. Unlike vampires, there will be evil thieves, and there will be not-so-evil thieves, and when running the thief stronghold, it's up to your character to decide how evil they want to be.

I don't recall any examples of the Shadow Thieves raping anyone in the game, and I also don't see why a vampire wouldn't be equally capable of doing something like that anyway. Personally, when playing a good character, I'd prefer to side with the group that has SOME evil in it than the one that is definitely ENTIRELY evil.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Q'alooaith: Both side's are "evil" It's upto the player to decide who is the lesser evil.. While vampires can be lawfull, theives can never be lawfull..

Not true. There are thieves with honor. Whereas the vampires had no qualms towards betraying you after you had aligned yourselves with them.

[LennonCook]

Neither side is, as a whole, less evil than the other. This is what makes this such a good roleplaying experience: which evil will you align yourself with?
A selfish character might go with Bodhi because she costs less, or might go with the thieves because that would make them immune to the authorities.
An undead hunter might say "I work to destroy these creatures and will NEVER side with them", or might decide that to infiltrate the vampires is an effective way to rid the world of them.
A (multi or dual classed) thief might side with the Shadowthieves for obvious reasons, or might side with Bodhi to hide from the Shadowmaster while undertaking freelance operations.
It is a decision for each character to make individually.
If you have options, such as slave trading, in your stronghold (which you do), it indicates to me that, if nothing else, the thieves have no qualms about these things. Who's is the greater sin, the one who does it or the one who stands aside and lets it happen?

[ 04-08-2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

[Balintherlas]

Well, not all vampires are evil, ever seen blade or league of extraordinary gentlemen, though linvail seems an honorable sort.

[Nerull]

Originally posted by Balintherlas: Well, not all vampires are evil, ever seen blade or league of extraordinary gentlemen, though linvail seems an honorable sort.

That is the movies. In the game, all of the vampires are Chaotic Evil that I have seen. I have long wished that there was an alternative to those two organizations (any modders want to pick it up and run with it?), but that is what you are stuck with as a choice. It is a roleplaying choice, but you are choosing between a criminal organization and a cabal of undead creatures. In D&D terms, the cabal of undead is the greater evil (undead are considered an abomination that should be destroyed by most good and neutral characters). That's why if you read walkthroughs, they generally define the Shadow Thieves path as the "good" path, with the Bohdi path as the "evil" path. Personally, just take whatever path you want and/or fits with your character.