I'm no coder but....

[Uatu]

Oh, okay, guess I will have to choose a nice bug that I want to have squashed then...

We do thank you a lot for working on this (glad that you get some kind of kick from it, too!)

[Uatu]

Hmm - there are a few other bugs I think I will register to SourceForge (but they aren't level 9, I think). Some would appear to be easier to fix than others (i.e. related to game rules, etc.)...

I could try to tackle those myself, but... did I mention that my programming skills are subpar AND I can't compile MFCs?

[Paul Stevens]

related to game rules

It certainly would be nice to expose as
much of this sort of thing as possible
in 'easily-edited' text files. We cannot
go wily-nily off in that direction, unfortunately,
though it would be a lot more fun.

[Uatu]

Well, I tried making a mini-mod for the bug (here: http://two.xthost.info/uatu/dungeonc...TurnUndead.zip):

2058748 turning undead causes fleeing and crash

How it should work:

A good-aligned 1st-level cleric should have a chance of 11/20 (roll of 10 or higher on a 20-sided die) to cause 1-12 skeletons to flee (see Table III. MATRIX FOR CLERICS AFFECTING UNDEAD here: http://two.xthost.info/uatu/dungeoncraft/tables1e.html). Turned undead flee for 3-12 rounds, after which they can come back, but the clerics can turn them again for the same result. Failed attempts result in the inability to try turning the same undead again. (Note that turning undead is actually more complicated regarding evil clerics - evil clerics can attempt to control undead (same success rates, but another dice roll afterwards (reaction dice score) to see whether the undead are then neutral or cooperative (joining as NPCs permanently, apparently); evil clerics can turn paladins as well).

Fleeing skeletons could be handled by having them simply disappear (I think this was how the old Gold Box games handled it, if I remember correctly) or have them actually try to run off the map (this was how DC tried to handle it before).

What is happening now:

1st-level clerics do seem to have a 50% chance or so to turn skeletons, but at this point, turned skeletons simply stay put and "guard" (get ready for approaching enemies).

In older releases, turned undead actually tried to flee off the map, but sometimes their reaching the end of the map caused the game to crash/freeze (if I remember correctly). I think a coder may have turned off fleeing completely for this reason (I think that all fleeing, even for non-undead is off now).

Another problem:

Also of note - the skeleton is unkillable. I think the reason for this is that it is set in the Monster Database to be immune to Death Magic - I remember talking about this bug with Manikus, but I cannot find the bug in SourceForge, so I am not sure what to do with it... This seems to me to be a quite serious bug as well, though...

Mini-dungeon:

The mini-dungeon for testing includes two pre-created lawful good 1st-level clerics and a very small dungeon leading to an encounter with a single skeleton. Since the clerics should have a 55% chance to successfully turn the skeleton, occasionally both of them will fail - in that case, please quit and try again!

This is quite a complex bug, I think, but let me know your thoughts on this! Thanks!

[SilentThief]

Originally Posted by Uatu Fleeing skeletons could be handled by having them simply disappear (I think this was how the old Gold Box games handled it, if I remember correctly) or have them actually try to run off the map (this was how DC tried to handle it before).

I think you were playing as a higher than 1st level cleric in those goldbox games. In POR, skeletons flee (which is what happens on a "T" result for turning). Higher levels like Curse or SotSB, they were destroyed outright (a "D" on the table for turning)

ST
ps good to see that someone is capable of doing something towards this. I would make mods for this if I was certain I wouldn't pass on some malware

[Uatu]

I don't think they were destroyed, though - according to my (unreliable?) memory, it said that the skeletons (or whatever) were turned, but they just disappeared (and gave no XP, I think!).

But yes, according to my table, undead should be destroyed if the (good) clerics are high enough level, and a greater number of undead (on average) destroyed at even higher levels.

[LurchBrick]

It depended on which goldbox game you played. A starting group of heroes in Champions of Krynn with a low level cleric using "Turning" made some undead run away. Then with a cleric at some higher level, the turning would make those undead disappear. A few cleric levels later and the undead would be outright killed.

[Uatu]

Oh, is that how it happened? I don't remember so clearly, so I can't say for sure...

I guess I can say that it would be most AD&D-like if the undead ran away at lower levels and were destroyed outright at higher levels (disappearing is convenient, but not quite correct).

[Jadefang]

I think how you depict the running away is more of the issue. Realistically, actually making the undead run away in fear like DC currently does seems to make more sense, but crashes the game if they do get away as known, and the only Gold Box game that depicts turning this way is PoR. FRUA and every other Gold Box game just makes the undead "disappear".

[Paul Stevens]

The AD&D Player's Handbook, 2nd Edition gives
very complex rules. I have that book and the
original FRUA handbook that came with the game.
I cannot find 'Turn Undead' in the FRUA book.
Is it there? How did FRUA handle this.

Also, I have written to Richard to ask what his
vision was in this regard. What ruleset does he
think we should be using? Adopting a ruleset
that is consistent would seem to be a good thing.

good to see that someone is capable of doing something

Ha! You ain't seen nothin' yet! All we have so
far is a promise to give it a try.