Question about Evolution/Creationism etc.

[the sauceman]

BY GOD you people are wierd....
just because Yoric and Sir Micheal have a problem with each other doesnt mean that we cant get along in this world...
We are all created by God and God loves each and every one of us the same, and if you dont want to believe that, well...theres not much I can do to change your minds....
but I know that faith is real...that Love is real...that Hate is real...I know that despite all of your guys' problems with each other....you all have someone that you Love, Right?
Do you have faith in that person?
If they will help you?
If they love you in return?
If not, then you are thinking of someone you like, not love...
I'm not making much sense, but if you can believe that another human being loves you...why cant you believe that there is someone infinently bigger than what we can comprehend loving you?

anyway....chou.

Originally posted by Sir Michael: quote: From Yorick: There is no point to my life, No meaning to my life. It will end with the cessation of consciousness and an eternal death. And it is this what I am afraid of, and blind myself to with faith, Faith in pessimism, Faith in the communist ideology, Faith trying to shoot down people's hope to make me feel better. Faith in anything that lets me think that the promise of eternal life doesn't exist so that I'll feel a bit better if I miss out.

Yorick, your perversion of his words, which were clearly his opinion, (and which he is not alone with), is one of the most disgusting, flaming things I have ever seen on any discussion board anywhere. You've gone from flame-bait (to use your phrase) to out-and-out flaming. Now who's violating the TOS?[/QUOTE]I didn't read all the posts and didn’t see what Yorick wrote until just now.
But suffice to say he's done this kind of thing before.
The problem is that faith is an emotive issue therefore peoples reactions can often be out of all proportion.
Please, I would like to see some evidence rather than Ad Hominem attacks & Emotive language on yoricks part.

[ 04-24-2002, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Dramnek_Ulk ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Sir Michael: [QB]I am at a loss of how to continue this pointless discussion, and it has stopped being interesting, fun, (or even civil) so I won't...

Really? Then why did you respond? It stopped being civil when people started insulting others thought processes instead of debating the ideas.

Did Cheetah and I exchange mud despite opposing views? A pessimistic outlook can be self fulfilling. "This conversation will deteriorate" Well of course it will if you're expecting it and reacting defensively. No suprises there.

I happen to know a lot of people enjoy discussion such as this as it strengthens, changes or clarifies their own position. It's only pointless if you want to change everyone elses opinions.
I got a lot out of this thread. But then given what we're talking about, that's to be expected. I'm seeing positivity in the discussion, and you are not.

Yorick, your perversion of his words, which were clearly his opinion, (and which he is not alone with), is one of the most disgusting, flaming things I have ever seen on any discussion board anywhere. You've gone from flame-bait (to use your phrase) to out-and-out flaming. Now who's violating the TOS?

Michael, rewording his words is not a flame. He spoke for everyone. I changed them for accuracy, to make a point. If it's insulting to him, then he insults himself. He placed those judgements on people of faith. So I put the shoe on the other foot. Tried to turn the picture around. Seems the best way.

I was actually referring more to human controlled activities like war, but so be it. Maybe now, you're showing your own pessimism and negativity. Who says darkness is any more "negative" than the light? (I actually prefer the nighttime.) Likewise with the rest. It is all in perspective. I appreciate life just fine without thinking about dying, and so on.

I never suggested negativity was all bad did I. Did I not suggest that negativity had a positive impact on our lives?

That is realism Michael. We can only conceive of light because there is darkness - absense of light. Think about it.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

No, I'm pointing out a reality.

[Yorick]

[quote]W

[the sauceman]

Great........
Now its Yoric and Dramnic Ulk........
(sorry if i spelt your name wrong..)

[Diamond Q]

Originally posted by Sir Michael: ...the first amendment freedom of religion clause which also guarantees that the government won't mess with religion and people's right to choose.

This is not to start one another line of debite within this thread, but for my own personal info, can anyone tell me for a fact:
1) Is public prayer banned in U.S. schools?
if so;
2) All schools/states? (apart from religious schools of course)
3) Is is just Christian prayer or does it include every religion/sect/cult/belief structure?

Also if any of these are true, I'd be interested in finding out how the government justied this against the first ammendment freedom of religion clause.

A text pm or email is fine if you don't want to clutter this thread any more.
Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: Ok I realize a large number of you are not religious, and some of your are very religious, but I was contemplating some things while reading today and I hit a stumper. Up till now I am religious (christian) and believe in evolution. I know that many RC scholars do not consider the Adam and Eve story to be a literal history of the world, and neither do I. But I did sort of have one little problem...how come we don't see any newly evolved life forms? You would think they would pop up from time to time...the only ones I know of in modern history are geneticly altered beasties. So when was the last evolved creature ....well.....evolved? Edit: Ok...I just sort of possibly answered my own question...perhas they are evolving at the bottom of the ocean..it does cover 7/10ths of the world....and Black Smokers are supposed to be organicly rich and diverse.....hmmm need to read more I guess. Help? Anyone?? thoughts? Comments?

My opinion:
I look in the mirror to percieve a continuing evolving life-form. Therefore at any given time I maybe newly evolved and still evolving. Evolution is a gradual process. So any dramtic results happen slowly and over time. There really is no such thing as an evolved species, but all species are evolving, according to the theory. An execption to the gradual rule appears to be the quickening of human beings and the pace that we change our enviroment. We are the most prevelant evolving species and the results of our collective lifestyle may manifest as "evolutions" in a comparable short time compared to humans evolution from neandertal.

[Jafin]

Wow, this is a heated thread. First off, let me say that I am indeed a christian (not Roman Catholic, or any particular denomination), just so you where I'm coming from. Now, few points and addresses I'd like to make:

Yorick - I must say that as I spent the last hour or more reading through this thread, I agreed with your beliefs in just about every way. I think that we see fairly eye-to-eye and could probably share our ideas in an interesting way. I would like to applaud (sp?) you in your ability to argue your point. You didn't put them all the same way I would but that's not really important.

Sir Michael - I agree, there are problems with this world, and yes they do need fixing and I would probably be as concerned about them as you to the point of focusing mostly on the negative if I didn't believe in God. But as I see it, God would put enough resources on this world to get us through the time he plans to have the human race here. Also, (and I might be mistaken here as to what you specifically intended) you seem to have generalized people of faith into a category of close-minded people who will not listen to or even attempt to accept ideas that don't accept or consider or take the point of view of people that don't believe in God or a higher being. You are wrong there. I have quite a few christian friends, but the person I consider as my best friend is a Jew by race, atheist by belief. I have considered his viewpoints and I acknowledge them even though I believe different. I have considered evolution (which this thread was about in the first place) but it makes no sense to me. I considered the posts of several of the atheists or "non-believers" as you might say, in this thread from their viewpoint and couldn't quite really believe them. I don't mean any of this as an attack and if it comes out that way I'm sorry.

Dramnek_Ulk - You have valid points in your argument I suppose but don't go insulting someone elses beliefs right away. It will close them off to what you're saying and make them thing "jerk" as it sort of did to me. Again not an attack, but intended as friendly advice. [img]smile.gif[/img]

sauceman - I think you made the most sense of all to me. Love is what this is really about, not brotherly love or romantic love but agape love of God. This is all dependent on each and every person's walk with God (or lack thereof). Each person will make up their mind at whatever point as to what you believe in.

Everyone - I personally believe in God wholeheartedly and will 'til the day I die. I can pray that you who don't believe will come to God, but I know you won't believe me unless you're willing to accept the idea that I might be right. I've attempted to accept the atheist beliefs but I can't.

Also, earlier on, someone said something about the holes in creationism "...puts swiss cheese to shame." Shortly after, someone said to point them out (I think it was Cerek first). No one has yet done so and I really am curious as to what they could possibly be. I can't find any.

I've ranted enough for now, so I'll end it here. I hope I got my opinions and points across clearly so everyone knows what the heck I'm talking about. [img]smile.gif[/img]

-Jafin

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Jafin: Yorick - I must say that as I spent the last hour or more reading through this thread, I agreed with your beliefs in just about every way. I think that we see fairly eye-to-eye and could probably share our ideas in an interesting way. I would like to applaud (sp?) you in your ability to argue your point. You didn't put them all the same way I would but that's not really important. -Jafin

Jafin, thanks so much for your words. We are brothers you and I. All the best.

Originally posted by Yorick: Michael, rewording his words is not a flame. He spoke for everyone. I changed them for accuracy, to make a point. If it's insulting to him, then he insults himself. He placed those judgements on people of faith. So I put the shoe on the other foot. Tried to turn the picture around. Seems the best way.

Actually you ignored the issues my posts raised, and simply twisted my words to fit your view of me, Incidentally by ignoring all of the points that I have raised you are proving my point about how faith seems to encourage people to ignore and/or twist evidence for its own ends. You have simply made attacks on me as a person rather than my arguments that I have put forth, accusing me of intolerance in baseless attacks against my character/person while you have used very emotive language which adds nothing to the debate.
You have presented no evidence to support your views and/or to act against my points, You have simply relied upon trying to accuse me of intolerance hoping that this would whip up support on your side.

Oh yes, and Communism can claim to be more than a mere ideology since it takes issue with the central fact of the material world, Capitalism and represents the embryonic death and succession of the that society in itself. A seed of the future growing in the garden of the present if you like.