Evolution

[Draconia]

WOW, I can't believe that I read thru all of this thread. So many thoughts and opinions. I would like to ask a few questions instead of adding an opinion. I hope it doesn't sound too stupid or I get made fun of for asking these questions but they are questions that have plaqued my mind for so long and I have just never asked them.

1. How do we know for sure that God isn't the one that had a hand in evolution?

2. That evolution isn't a test of our faith in him? to trust that he is capable of many things?

3. How do we know that he didn't throw evidence of evolution in for ppl to find, and question him and try to disprove his exsitence?

Now I really hope that no one gets upset at me. I personally feel like God has a hand in almost everything and we need to trust in him and have faith. Without faith, where would we be?
I have only one request, if what I asked or said upsets you, please don't reply to my post. I am really sensitive right now due to my pregnancy and I will apoloqize now if I upset anyone. Thanks.

[esquire]

Originally posted by Draconia: WOW, I can't believe that I read thru all of this thread. So many thoughts and opinions. I would like to ask a few questions instead of adding an opinion. I hope it doesn't sound too stupid or I get made fun of for asking these questions but they are questions that have plaqued my mind for so long and I have just never asked them. 1. How do we know for sure that God isn't the one that had a hand in evolution? 2. That evolution isn't a test of our faith in him? to trust that he is capable of many things? 3. How do we know that he didn't throw evidence of evolution in for ppl to find, and question him and try to disprove his exsitence? Now I really hope that no one gets upset at me. I personally feel like God has a hand in almost everything and we need to trust in him and have faith. Without faith, where would we be? I have only one request, if what I asked or said upsets you, please don't reply to my post. I am really sensitive right now due to my pregnancy and I will apoloqize now if I upset anyone. Thanks.

IMO the only satisfactory way to answer your questions is to determine what kind of answer you want. Do you want one based on secularism? or faith? If faith, then which one? Which god? There are thousands of religions and each has their unique definition of god/gods.

boggles one's mind doesn't it?

[ 02-25-2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: esquire ]

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by LordKathen: It seems to me that the general christian view is becoming more and more subjective to the idea of evolution.

"Did Darwin destroy Christianity? Darwin said no. In 1879 atheist John Fordyce wrote Darwin asking whether evolution and God were compatible. Darwin replied that it was absurd to doubt whether anyone could ardently believe in God and be an evolutionist, and gave the examples of his friends, Asa Gray and Charles Kingsley"

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2000/PSCF6-00Roberts.html[/QUOTE]Darwins own personal opinion on the "begining" of evolution is irrelevent. Im talking about general christian opinion. Darwin may have been a stepping stone in the subjectiveness, but I am sure there was freethought and atheism, long before Darwin and evolution came to be.
The outspoken seem to be more and more as time rolls on. Thats all I am saying. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by LordKathen: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by LordKathen: It seems to me that the general christian view is becoming more and more subjective to the idea of evolution.

"Did Darwin destroy Christianity? Darwin said no. In 1879 atheist John Fordyce wrote Darwin asking whether evolution and God were compatible. Darwin replied that it was absurd to doubt whether anyone could ardently believe in God and be an evolutionist, and gave the examples of his friends, Asa Gray and Charles Kingsley"

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2000/PSCF6-00Roberts.html[/QUOTE]Darwins own personal opinion on the "begining" of evolution is irrelevent. Im talking about general christian opinion. Darwin may have been a stepping stone in the subjectiveness, but I am sure there was freethought and atheism, long before Darwin and evolution came to be.
The outspoken seem to be more and more as time rolls on. Thats all I am saying. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]I presented Darwins opinion as proof that from evolution theory's inception, there have been Christian evolutionists. The general christian view is as it has ever been. Concerned with the WHO, not the HOW of creation.

That the most outspoken opponents of evolution are theists is a no-brainer. You have to be a theist to believe in the only alternate presented at the moment.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Yorick: This is what I was talking about earlier. Following an evolutionist mindset can open up justification for and acceptance of injustices. No point in helping out the weak or oppressed, because if they're meant to survive they will. En-masse or individually. Right?[/QB]

As a whole, Yorick. Not individually.
We are social animals that will take care of our own to continue the walk.
IMHO, this is where morals came from. A need to commune together requires rules to survive. With this social instinct and the evolution we as humans have undergone, we have attempted to control that part of the equasion.
I am afraid however that this will probably be our demise.
We became to smart for our own good, and are rapidly overpopulating the planet.
Look at how long the dinosours lasted, 250 million years or so, do you see that length in our future? Doubt it.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Draconia: WOW, I can't believe that I read thru all of this thread. So many thoughts and opinions. I would like to ask a few questions instead of adding an opinion. I hope it doesn't sound too stupid or I get made fun of for asking these questions but they are questions that have plaqued my mind for so long and I have just never asked them. 1. How do we know for sure that God isn't the one that had a hand in evolution? 2. That evolution isn't a test of our faith in him? to trust that he is capable of many things? 3. How do we know that he didn't throw evidence of evolution in for ppl to find, and question him and try to disprove his exsitence? Now I really hope that no one gets upset at me. I personally feel like God has a hand in almost everything and we need to trust in him and have faith. Without faith, where would we be? I have only one request, if what I asked or said upsets you, please don't reply to my post. I am really sensitive right now due to my pregnancy and I will apoloqize now if I upset anyone. Thanks.

Great post Draconia. Well said and well put. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Peace and well wishes to you.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Yorick: You have to be a theist to believe in the only alternate presented at the moment.[/QB]

Aye? Sorry, not following this statement.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Yorick: Quote: Originally posted by Draconia: WOW, I can't believe that I read thru all of this thread. So many thoughts and opinions. I would like to ask a few questions instead of adding an opinion. I hope it doesn't sound too stupid or I get made fun of for asking these questions but they are questions that have plaqued my mind for so long and I have just never asked them. 1. How do we know for sure that God isn't the one that had a hand in evolution? 2. That evolution isn't a test of our faith in him? to trust that he is capable of many things? 3. How do we know that he didn't throw evidence of evolution in for ppl to find, and question him and try to disprove his exsitence? Now I really hope that no one gets upset at me. I personally feel like God has a hand in almost everything and we need to trust in him and have faith. Without faith, where would we be? I have only one request, if what I asked or said upsets you, please don't reply to my post. I am really sensitive right now due to my pregnancy and I will apoloqize now if I upset anyone. Thanks.

Great post Draconia. Well said and well put. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Peace and well wishes to you.[/QUOTE]Yes, congrats on your baby, and best of luck to you and yours. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by LordKathen: #1.We are social animals that will take care of our own to continue the walk. #2.We became to smart for our own good, and are rapidly overpopulating the planet.

Two things and I'm off to bed. Nice talking with you Kathen, but for a change I'll disagree.

#1.Some are antisocial. Individually and en-masse. See genocidal leaders/nations and loners etc. I'd hope we continue to take care of each other. That's what a society is. Some times when I look at the US health system/unemployment benefits, I worry for the worlds dominant society's ability to "take care of it's own." But that's another topic.

So's #2.If we're arguing that the planet is overpopulating, then that's not being too smart, but not being smart enough. It's a resource management issue, not a space issue. get rid of the car, and so much space opens up immediately. Geographically smaller "polis" type cities like Singapore or Manhattan and more public transport. etc etc.

But, as I said that's another topic.

The point being, we are certainly not "too smart for our own good". That is a contradiction. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Goodnight mate.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by LordKathen: Quote: Originally posted by Yorick: You have to be a theist to believe in the only alternate presented at the moment.

Aye? Sorry, not following this statement.[/QB][/QUOTE]Creationism needs a creator... [img]smile.gif[/img]