3rd Edition rules a turn off?

[Katherine]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: Hence the [beta] test for NWN; something that they have NOT done before!

Every company does a beta test, it's just that sometimes the beta is called General Release.

And, I've only ever played 1e PnP and find this 3e stuff a little hard to figure out. It does seem more like a video game than what I am used to, but that's just the way it is.

As far as flaunting Gygax over people's heads... I just have to tell you that he's playing in the same NWN community I will be playing in. I guess he doesn't have the same issues some of you have?

In the end, this argument is really pointless- 3e is 3e and there's not a whole lot anyone can do to change that. Some people like it, some people don't. If you don't like it, why not create your own gaming system and market it? If the sentiment out there is as bad as you think, there will be a market for a game with a more traditional rule set.

[Arnabas]

Wow. Took me a while to read all of this...
First off, I agree that it is sad for a system to be abandoned in favour of the new edition.
I just have to ask one thing: why do you play D+D? Is it because you enjoy getting together with your friends, having funa telling stories about your characters and going on adventures together? Do you enjoy seeing that character grow and learn and accomplish things? Or do you play because you like to roll dice?
Personally, I like to play a character, not a set of numbers. If 3rd ed. works for people, great. I believe it was CTHULHU who said that everyone was thinking about THEIR character, what THEY want to do and how THEY want to play. Well, maybe I am misunderstanding you, but does that mean that you prefer everyone to play the way YOU want them to? Ok, what character should I play? What should I name him? What should his personality be?
I have never known anyone who used the rules exactly as presented. They always had some sort of house rules. I personally allowed non-humans to reach any level in any profession. I also thought magic was dumb. "I can't cast my spell right now because I already cast it five minutes ago and have forgotten how to do it..." (yes I know about "storing the pattern of magical energy... blah, blah). I used the spell progression chart to show how many different spells a character could study, but assigned points to the character, which were spent as spells were cast.
On the topic of "now any character can go off alone and be Xena or an X-Man... Well, I think it's cool that a character is able to stand on his own two feet. But if a player runs off to do everything him/herself, then that player shouldn't be part of your group. I let my players have side-quests and personal stories, but always ensure that they remember they are part of a TEAM. Yes, Character X could survive on his own for a while, but some things cannot be done by a single person.
Gee, I could go on forever, but I will shut up.
Let me just say this: I agree that it sucks to change something good just for the sake of change or for money. But people have the right to play what they want. I don't let anyone tell me I am stupid for liking a game system any more than I let someone say I am going to hell for being a Pagan.

[mreball]

This argument could go on for ever. But me personnaly I am looking forward to the change. I have never played 3rd edition but something I didnt like in the other editions is that I could look at a character and tell what he was and if a warrior type what he was specialized in. With the new feats it looks like it might be harder to tell what a character is and what he can do. In the old editions you were fighter/specialize in sword/ then swing sword. Dont get me wrong I really enjoyed the game but like people said in previous messages there were house rules. I used to get the dragon magazine(I think that was the name of it) and couldnt wait for new classes/races like It was in the magazine that I first saw the bounty hunter, death master, and so forth. But this is just an opinion of an old rp gamer.

[CTHULHU007]

This arguement IS pointless here. No amount of bickering or pointing out differences/flaws will change the mind of those stubborn enough and set in their ways. Bottom line most will waste their money on DD&D..that's ok. It's your money not mine. Do with it as you will. Play what you will. In retrospect I will save my money and play what I wish. Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has them. IMHO whoever buys 3rd ED is wasting their money on a probably doomed endeavor. Too many of you it's not. Do as you wish.

[Azred]

Azred steps in and begins to read posts.... 15 minutes later he sits down, shaking his head.

Micah, you were right. I almost don't even believe it. Oh, well....

I have played under the old boxed set rules, 1st edition rules, and 2nd edition rules. The changes in the 3rd edition rules, based on everything I have read/seen about them, are as I thought they would be--towards the GURPS system designed by Steve Jackson. No classes, just characters who can be anything and learn any skill (why, yes, I do have a one-eared half-elf who is a master of Pentjak Silat, paints in watercolor, speaks medieval Italian, is a sloppy dresser because he's color blind, and compusively gambles his money away but only after giving a tithe to the retirement home where his grandmother stays).
I am goint to purchase IWD2 and, most likely, NWN when they come out. I look forward to 3rd edition because it will be something new to learn (I'm waiting to compare it to other systems for myself). I'm just weird that way, I suppose. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

Azred gets up, heading off into the kitchen for more coffee....

[DeSoya]

Whee Whee stir the pot. Whee. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

So... Change bad. What about Skills and powers? That was an add on to 2E. I thought that was a terrible addition to a decent/mediocre game. You could have a first level character wielding swords wearing armor and casting magic missles.

And just to address (quickly) some stuff I just read (I apologize for the lateness of this post. My internet access has been spotty lately).

Gygax is probably steamed b/c his Dangerous Journeys stuff got bought out (again) and incorporated into 3E in a few places. Plus the first game he ever published, Chainmail, was destroyed and replaced by WOTC with the current version. Same name, different game. Have to say that that GG's was worse. [img]smile.gif[/img] Knights are unbeatable in his.... I've got a copy lying around somewhere.

I noticed an offhanded comment about how 3E destroys the differentiation of classes by allowing free multi classing and didn't see any response. So... I figured I post one. The class specialities are still there. Hit points, armor and weapon proficienies and especially skills and skill points play a huge role in make a character class what it is. Just think of the classic fighter mage. In 2E: Lower hit points, used a sword, no armor. In 3E: Lower hit points (compared to a straight ftr that is), uses a sword, no armor. And worse skills. Forgot to mention that. Just like in 2E with proficiencies, 3E shafts the fighter on skills. To me the flavor is similar (different. Definatly different. But still D&D), it is the mechanics that have changed.

DeSoya

[CTHULHU007]

That and this , this and that. From where you speak I'm sure it's fact. If you'd see you'd only see 3rd Edition is not for thee. You may argue as you like, but we shall not go down without a fight. So waste your money if you wish, but in the end it's a cold cold dish. I do not mind not in the least, so go now eat your empty feast.

I know the rules of the (editions). Arguing points that you obviously totally agree with is a pointless pursuit.

Do what you wish.

[Kelsoph-Syn-]

*sigh*

A roleplaying experience is as good as you make it.

3rd Edition doesn't make roleplaying worse.

It's something on the "client" side, as I always said. Maybe you guys are just loosing interest in DnD altogether...

All I can say is try NWN. You don't... and that's your loss. I feel it's going to be the computer roleplaying experience of a lifetime.

[CTHULHU007]

Blind is your might blind is your sight. We who know better know we are right. To many 3rd EDition is quite the feat, but do not gorge me on your rotted meat. Balance is golden that is so true, but D&D faltered and fell from it's stool. I long for the old days when things were much better, but those days are gone and now I'm in fetters. Like the game I might but my game is dead replaced by a thing that is better unread. So as has been said do what ye wish and eat your cold dish.

I hope I've amused you with my little ryhme but as you can see I'm all out of time. So all things golden there must come an end, but those that hold true shall never give in.

[The Merciful]

Originally posted by CTHULHU007: You may argue as you like, but we shall not go down without a fight.

CTHULHU007, for Chrissakes, it's just a game!