Gaza gunmen drag EU into Danish-Muslim blasphemy clash

[shamrock_uk]

That's accurate as far as I know. I'm a little rusty, but as I recall Muslims were persecuted in the very beginnings, chased from their homes and Mohammed had to raise an army to fight back. They just happened to be rather good at it.

But when you think about it, the whole world was inhabited by savages back then really...

[Memnoch]

Good point Shamrock. If you think about it, Christians were responsible for some shocking savagery and violence back during the Crusades as well. Ironically, back in the Middle Ages Islam was the culture of enlightenment and Christianity was the barbaric one. Don't forget the Old Testament's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Glass houses and stones and all that.

Still, that was back then and this is now. In today's information age, what's happening in the Middle East with kidnappings and whatnot is a bit of a disgrace, eh.

[Sir Degrader]

As I also recall, it appears that the Islamic Conquests lasted nearly 200 years, and the gradual expansion of Islam through violent means only stopped when Turkey lost "The Great Turkish War"?

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: That's accurate as far as I know. I'm a little rusty, but as I recall Muslims were persecuted in the very beginnings, chased from their homes and Mohammed had to raise an army to fight back. They just happened to be rather good at it.

When the options are an equal share of all booty (-20% for mohammed) for survivors, or paradise with all the hedonistic excess you could desire for those who die it becomes a win-win situation to go down fighting (it also controls the male-population to make 4-wives a feasible situation, ie less male competition)

[Memnoch]

A Pakistani cleric has offered a million dollars for anyone who kills one of the cartoonists.

Cleric puts $1m bounty on Danish cartoonists . 18.02.06 9.20am . ISLAMABAD - A Pakistani Muslim cleric and his followers have offered rewards amounting to over US$1 million for anyone who killed Danish cartoonists who drew caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad that have enraged Muslims worldwide. . The cleric offered the bounty during Friday prayers as Muslim anger against the cartoons flared anew in parts of Asia. Weeks of global protests over the cartoons have gained momentum and fears of a clash of civilizations between the West and Islam have led to calls on all sides for calm. . About 10 people were killed in violent clashes between Libyan police and demonstrators today at a protest over the cartoons, Italian Ambassador to Tripoli Francesco Trupiano told Reuters. . "The number of dead is not official, or definitive, because until the clashes are over, it's hard to say. But there are certainly about 10 victims," Trupiano said, clarifying that by victims he meant dead. . Trupiano said he had met Libya's interior minister about a half hour earlier to discuss the clashes outside Italy's consulate in the northeastern city of Benghazi. . On Friday, thousands rallied in Pakistan, police in Bangladesh blocked demonstrators heading for the Danish embassy in Dhaka and in the Indian city of Hyderabad, police fired teargas shells and batons to beat back hundreds of protesters, who had stoned shops and disrupted traffic. . Protests in Pakistan this week have resulted in at least five deaths and hundreds of detentions, and on Friday it became the latest country where Denmark has decided to temporarily close its embassy. . The Danish foreign ministry also issued a travel warning for Pakistan, urging any Danes to leave as soon as possible. . In the northwestern Pakistani city of Peshawar, cleric Maulana Yousef Qureshi said he had personally offered to pay a bounty of 500,000 rupees to anyone who killed a Danish cartoonist, and two of his congregation put up additional rewards of $1 million and one million rupees plus a car. . "If the West can place a bounty on Osama bin Laden and Zawahri we can also announce reward for killing the man who has caused this sacrilege of the holy Prophet," Qureshi told Reuters, referring to the al Qaeda leader and his deputy Ayman al Zawahri. . The cleric leads the congregation at the historic Mohabat mosque, on street known for goldsmith shops in the provincial capital of North West Frontier Province -- a stronghold of Pakistan's Islamist opposition parties. . The cartoons were first published in Denmark last September, but last month newspapers and magazines in Europe and elsewhere began republishing to assert principles of freedom of expression. . Muslims believe images of the Prophet are forbidden. . EMBASSY SHUTS . Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said it was recalling its own ambassador from Copenhagen for consultations. It did not elaborate further. . The Danish ambassador in Islamabad said, however, that relations had not been broken off because of the furor. . "I'm still in Pakistan and in a secure place," Ambassador Bent Wigotski told Reuters. . "There is no question of broken relations or anything like that," he said, adding that the German embassy was looking after Denmark's consular affairs. . Denmark has already shut its missions in Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Indonesia as a result of violence or threats of violence. . Protests in Pakistan have been large and violent and many have taken on a distinctly anti-US tone. Demonstrators, in addition to burning Danish flags, have attacked US fast-food outlets and burned US President George W. Bush in effigy. . Islamist parties have called for a nationwide strike on March 3, around the time President George W. Bush is expected to visit Pakistan, despite the unrest. . Western leaders have been calling for calm. . Former US President Bill Clinton and French President Jacques Chirac both said on Friday that it was a mistake to publish the cartoons. . Clinton, on a private visit to Pakistan, said he saw nothing wrong with Muslims around the world demonstrating in a peaceful way, but he feared a great opportunity to improve understanding had been squandered. . "This is not a time to burn bridges; this is a time to build them," he said, adding, "...I can tell you that most people are horrified that this much misunderstanding has occurred." . Chirac was more blunt. . "I am appalled by what happened as a result of the publications of these cartoons," Chirac told India Today news magazine which published an interview with him on Friday. . "I am, of course, in favor of the freedom of the press, which is a pillar of democracy. But I am equally for respecting everyone's sensibilities... So I deplore the situation," said Chirac, who visits India next week. . - REUTERS

Source: NZ Herald

[ 02-19-2006, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Sir Degrader]

Oh, now we're offering bounties? Well, an eye for an eye and all that. I'm giving away boxes of frootloops to whoever brings me the scalp of an Iman. Their attacks on my God shall not be tolerated!

[shamrock_uk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad

Really, anybody interested in the early history of Islam should read the above article for a nice summary. There's also a separate 'history of Islam' article linked there if you really like your details!

Seeing as it's also a stick regularly used to attack Muhammed with by the West, this article also provides a nice summary of the problems related to accurately dating the age of Aisha. Worth noting that all the accounts of her being 9 come from a book written 100 years after her death yet supposedly narrated by her. I treat that with the same disdain as I do all religious texts which make similar claims. The historical calculations all seem to place a more realistic age to her.

[ 02-19-2006, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[shamrock_uk]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Good point Shamrock. If you think about it, Christians were responsible for some shocking savagery and violence back during the Crusades as well. Ironically, back in the Middle Ages Islam was the culture of enlightenment and Christianity was the barbaric one. Don't forget the Old Testament's "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". Glass houses and stones and all that. Still, that was back then and this is now. In today's information age, what's happening in the Middle East with kidnappings and whatnot is a bit of a disgrace, eh.

The crusades were quite amusing really. Especially the ones that got distracted on the way to the Holy Lands and just randomly pillaged other cities instead for the sake of it.

The latest cartoon news is that one of the authors has finally spoken to a Scottish newspaper revealing that he was inspired by terrorism and saying that he doesn't apologise for creating them. I can't find the story on the Beeb anymore though.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by shamrock_uk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad Really, anybody interested in the early history of Islam should read the above article for a nice summary. There's also a separate 'history of Islam' article linked there if you really like your details! Seeing as it's also a stick regularly used to attack Muhammed with by the West, this article also provides a nice summary of the problems related to accurately dating the age of Aisha. Worth noting that all the accounts of her being 9 come from a book written 100 years after her death yet supposedly narrated by her. I treat that with the same disdain as I do all religious texts which make similar claims. The historical calculations all seem to place a more realistic age to her.

There's a slight problem with wikipedia articles and controversial articles, since they can be editted by anyone a group of vigilant white-washers can conceal just about anything and defy all attempts at correcting false entries... just saying.

Also regarding Aisha, her age is accepted as fact by AL Azhar(sp?) college (the most prestigious institute of islamic learning (forgive the oxymoron), and has been the basis of sharia law for 12 centuries and more, I sent you a link a while ago about statements from Ayatolla Khomeini (the man who took control of Iran after he helped oust the Shah) where he established the age of adulthood for women at 9 (meaning legally they could be married, tried, executed, etc as adults(according to the articles I've read he married her at 6 and consumated the relationship when she was 9)) because of the example of mohammed (which is where most of sharia law comes from). The point being that unfortunately the true facts matter less than how they are interpretted and used by average muslims today, and scholars of islam tend to take a look more at the established and commonly accepted parts of the faith rather than taking a critical, unbiased view of events (those who try taking that critical eye are more often than not condemned for their efforts)

[Morgeruat]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...-38197,00.html

An islamic court in India has issued a death fatwa for the cartoonists.