Gaza gunmen drag EU into Danish-Muslim blasphemy clash

[shamrock_uk]

An encouraging article from Denmark.

Just FYI for those who asked earlier, Danish exports to the Arab world (presumably not the wider Muslim world) are worth $2.6 billion.

[ 02-08-2006, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]

[Memnoch]

Just to provide another side to this, here's the view from a Muslim friend of mine on the cartoon debacle.

The word Islam means peace. Jihad means 'to strive' and Quran prohibits physical fighting. Its a long discussion, but let me register my thoughts on this caricature issue. Those Muslims who are protesting are doing it out of what they think is love for Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). They consider themselves to be his followers. This however would appear paradoxical if they sat down and thought about how Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) himslef would have reacted if someone had ridiculed him or his loved ones. We Muslims believe that he followed each and every instruction from Allah in the Quran. Now just consider the following verses from the Quran: Surah 3 Verse 134: And those who spend in times of ease and hardship and curb their anger and forgive other people. Indeed Allah loves such doers of good Surely he practiced this verse. So in this situation he would not have gotten angry and would have immediately forgiven those who have drawn the cartoons. As followers of his sunnah we Muslims should do the same......dont get angry and forgive these guys. In fact we should immediately forgive anyone who does anything wrong or hurts us in anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] Here is another beautiful verse....again one that Prophet Mohammad would have practiced since he practiced them all: Surah 25 Verse 63: Al-Rahman's (one of Allah's names) servants are those who walk with humility on earth and when addressed by the jahileen (ignorant) say salaam (peace) This means whenever someone would say something stupid or untoward to him he would be peaceful and kind to them. Let us be like him instead of seeking revenge and thirsting for an offender's blood. Lets be humble, kind, and forgiving in all situations. Only then will the Muslims become known as an exemplary community, not by killing and spreading hatred. Obviously in the history outside the Quran and in the tafseer (commentaries on Quran by various humans) that say Prophet Mohammad and his companions were involved in killings and wars are totally wrong.

[robertthebard]

Ooookaaayyyy. This comes back to following the verses that would make someone look good to people in the west, maybe catch them sleeping again?

[Morgeruat]

Something suitably offensive for everyone.

[Timber Loftis]

Memnoch, I think that quote you posted demonstrates how many Muslims simply are poor followers of their religion, just as many Christians are poor followers of the "turn the other cheek" doctrine.

[Morgeruat]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Just to provide another side to this, here's the view from a Muslim friend of mine on the cartoon debacle. quote: The word Islam means peace. Jihad means 'to strive' and Quran prohibits physical fighting. Its a long discussion, but let me register my thoughts on this caricature issue. Those Muslims who are protesting are doing it out of what they think is love for Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him). They consider themselves to be his followers. This however would appear paradoxical if they sat down and thought about how Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) himslef would have reacted if someone had ridiculed him or his loved ones. We Muslims believe that he followed each and every instruction from Allah in the Quran. Now just consider the following verses from the Quran: Surah 3 Verse 134: And those who spend in times of ease and hardship and curb their anger and forgive other people. Indeed Allah loves such doers of good Surely he practiced this verse. So in this situation he would not have gotten angry and would have immediately forgiven those who have drawn the cartoons. As followers of his sunnah we Muslims should do the same......dont get angry and forgive these guys. In fact we should immediately forgive anyone who does anything wrong or hurts us in anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] Here is another beautiful verse....again one that Prophet Mohammad would have practiced since he practiced them all: Surah 25 Verse 63: Al-Rahman's (one of Allah's names) servants are those who walk with humility on earth and when addressed by the jahileen (ignorant) say salaam (peace) This means whenever someone would say something stupid or untoward to him he would be peaceful and kind to them. Let us be like him instead of seeking revenge and thirsting for an offender's blood. Lets be humble, kind, and forgiving in all situations. Only then will the Muslims become known as an exemplary community, not by killing and spreading hatred. Obviously in the history outside the Quran and in the tafseer (commentaries on Quran by various humans) that say Prophet Mohammad and his companions were involved in killings and wars are totally wrong.

[/QUOTE]Interesting quotes there Memnoch, but the Sunnah (traditions) and Hadiths (documentation of the life and dealings of Moe) are rated by islamic scholars for accuracy based upon how closely they were written compared to when he lived, as well as accuracy based on his established character, and they have been since the first hadiths were written roughly 100 or so years after his death. Most are accepted as true by islamic institutions that teach future imams and other scholars. The hadith that mentions Moe going to the "greater jihad" wherein he sought to become more spiritually pure (and rendering holy war as a lesser jihad) is largely considered a "weak" or poorly supported hadith.

ISLAM: Resignation to the will of God. the misconception occurs commonly because of a similar word "in'salam" which means peace. (you may recall the merchant from Aladdin beginning the movie by saying "Salam and good evening to you"
How Moe dealt with criticism and how it reflects the reactions of his followers now
The arguement that he obeyed every command in the koran

some quotes from the koran: (out of respect for the moratorium you will have to select the text to see it)

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

2:216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

3:151 We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.

3:178 And let not those who disbelieve imagine that the rein We give them bodeth good unto their souls. We only give them rein that they may grow in sinfulness. And theirs will be a shameful doom.

4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

4:76 Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil's strategy is ever weak.

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.

4:92 It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave.

5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;

5:38 As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

5:45 And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.

8:12 When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

8:15 O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them.
8:16 Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless manoeuvring for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.
8:17 Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

8:59 And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape.
8:60 Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.

8:65 O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred (steadfast) they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:38 O ye who believe! What aileth you that when it is said unto you: Go forth in the way of Allah, ye are bowed down to the ground with heaviness. Take ye pleasure in the life of the world rather than in the Hereafter ? The comfort of the life of the world is but little in the Hereafter.
9:39 If ye go not forth He will afflict you with a painful doom, and will choose instead of you a folk other than you. Ye cannot harm Him at all. Allah is Able to do all things.

9:41 Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew.

9:73 O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
9:111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph

9:113 It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)

18:104 Those whose effort goeth astray in the life of the world, and yet they reckon that they do good work.
18:105 Those are they who disbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and in the meeting with Him. Therefor their works are vain, and on the Day of Resurrection We assign no weight to them.
18:106 That is their reward: hell, because they disbelieved, and made a jest of Our revelations and Our messengers.

22:15 Whoso is wont to think (through envy) that Allah will not give him (Muhammad) victory in the world and the Hereafter (and is enraged at the thought of his victory), let him stretch a rope up to the roof (of his dwelling), and let him hang himself. Then let him see whether his strategy dispelleth that whereat he rageth!.

24:2 The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

29:68 Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah, or denieth the truth when it cometh unto him ? Is not there a home in hell for disbelievers ?

33:60 If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.
33:61 Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter.

38:33 (Then David said): Bring them back to me, and fell to slashing (with his sword their) legs and necks.

45:9 And when he knoweth aught of Our revelations he maketh it a jest. For such there is a shameful doom.

47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.

58:14 Hast thou not seen those who take for friends a folk with whom Allah is wroth ? They are neither of you nor of them, and they swear a false oath knowingly.

61:4 Lo! Allah loveth them who battle for His cause in ranks, as if they were a solid structure.

[ 02-09-2006, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[johnny]

Quite the versatile little fairytalebook, no ? Which quotes am i to believe ? Or are all of them inthere ? In that case it isn't even a fairytale, but one giant contradiction of itself. Or is the book patched perhaps ? Memnoch's quotes are from the 1.1 version, and Morguerat's from the 1.2 ?

[ 02-09-2006, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: johnny ]

[Morgeruat]

It's all in there, here's what the koran has to say about contradictions and abrogation.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...a/by_name.html

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.co...brogation.html

[ 02-09-2006, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[Morgeruat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4698528.stm

On a note unrelated to the linked article but relevant to the thread itself, the cartoons were commisioned at the request of the newspaper because an author was having difficulty getting an artist to depict mohammed for a novel he was writing, most of the artists he had approached refused out of fear of retaliation.

[Kakero]

You know, I vividly remember reading that Mohammed waging several battle/war against his opponent from my secondary history book. Mind you, that history book was printed by the Malaysian education ministry.