Evolution

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Chamberlain: In evolution, there are many many paths that can be taken, depending on the conditions in which a animal/monera/plant/protist/whatever lives in.

Exactly! Well said. [img]graemlins/awesomework.gif[/img]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Chamberlain: He said to a certain extent, evolution is not theory, but fact. There is significant evidence to show that it occurs.

Significant evidence supporting a theory does not make it factual if you have to speculate on that evidence. as with evolution theory.

Rather than accepting your teachers acceptance of other humans unproven theories as fact, why not make up your own mind and look at it all with an open mind?

[ 02-24-2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

[Timber Loftis]

Yorick, you are using China as a comparrison but not Africa? The NBA certainly has gone there to get its 7-footers before, and the lifestyle (i.e. access to food) is on par there with China, not the USA.

We are evolving. It wasn't too long ago we lost the need for our appendix, coccygeal vertebrae, or tonsils - all of which are now vestigal organs. The 5 1/2-foot stone walls in London blocked line-of-sight 200 years ago. Not now. We are undergoing an evolutionary trend that is often followed by creatures at the pinnacle of their food chain - tendancy toward giganticism. And, this tendancy has never once resulted in anything but the death of the species experiencing it.

[The Hierophant]

Man, there have been ALOT of posts in this thread overnight. Since I havn't read them all yet I'd just like to state that the theory is not 'man is descended from apes', it is more 'apes and man are descended from a common ancestor resembling the two'. The ancestor, through geographical isolation eccentuated different aspects of itself, evolving into the two branches of mammal that now make up ape and man.

And remember that we are not the only biped to have walked the Earth. There have been (at least) dozens of other biped species. Some, such as the australopithicenes were quite small, maybe reaching waist-high to a moden man, others were larger, such as the homo-genus neanderthal. But many and most of these biped species lived on the planet simultaneously at one stage. We have to put two and two together in order to deduce why we're the only bipeds left. But imagine how amazing it would be to see one of these creatures walking about. A small, hairy, two-legged thing, capable of using stone and wooden tools. They'd be so cute! Until of course they got spooked and started throwing rocks at you, at which time it would be best to kill them and remove the threat. Which is quite possibly what happened. They were pushed out of fertile gathering/scavenging grounds (the first humanoids were more than likely mere scavengers rather than hunters) and starved into non-existance.

[Aelia Jusa]

What makes a defence mechanism not an instinct I wonder? Certainly some defence mechanisms are learned, try something, are safe, do it again. But what about say, the moro reflex? (Or any reflex? Orientation? Not a fear of loud noises per se, but a reaction to them.) Babies don't learn the moro reflex, and it disappears after a few weeks, they just know to do it.

What about crying? Now babies learn a lot about crying and what they can get with different types of crying, but intially they don't know anything, they just know to cry. They don't try other things first when they're hungry or wet, and it's a matter of learning that crying's the thing, they just (instinctively) know.

Babies also have a preference for human faces (or approximations). They can't learn this in the womb but as soon as they're born they prefer to look at face-like configurations rather than other geometric configurations. Babies know (instinctively?) lots of stuff they don't learn.

[Timber Loftis]

Crying is instinctual, IIRC. The post pointing out that more complex life forms have less instinct is also accurate on this issue.

[Melusine]

Of course Aelia, and there are many more examples. Crying's a very good one though...
But I think Yorick is simply not buying that humans have ANY instincts, no matter how much evidence you come up with.

Nevermind Hugh, I'm not arguing with you anymore... sorry mate, just don't think it's getting us any further...

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Yorick, you are using China as a comparrison but not Africa? The NBA certainly has gone there to get its 7-footers before, and the lifestyle (i.e. access to food) is on par there with China, not the USA. We are evolving. It wasn't too long ago we lost the need for our appendix, coccygeal vertebrae, or tonsils - all of which are now vestigal organs. The 5 1/2-foot stone walls in London blocked line-of-sight 200 years ago. Not now. We are undergoing an evolutionary trend that is often followed by creatures at the pinnacle of their food chain - tendancy toward giganticism. And, this tendancy has never once resulted in anything but the death of the species experiencing it.

Somalia is in Africa.

The average African American is huge compared to the average African. The seven foot Watsui tribe are an abberation from the norm.

Interestingly the nation with the tallest average population is Holland apparently. However there are African Americans in America who frequently pass the seven foot mark.

The loss of the appendix is related to diet. Word is it was used for digesting grass. Even so, unused, it still gets put into the body of an forming baby. The code hasn't altered to fit the lack of need for it.

The tonsils on the other hand still do perform a valuable function. Doctors are no longer taking them out on first sign of trouble. It's found they absorb an infection first, before it goes to the rest of the body. The tonsils get infected rather than other parts of the body. (lungs, throat, sinuses, stomach etc)

I had my tonsils removed as a child.

I also now have chronic pharyngitis. The back of my upper throat (the pharynx)and sinuses are always infected, and inflamed (though there's no pain in the throat).

All the time.

[Charlie]

I've always wondered about yawning as instinctive. Ever noticed if someone yawns deeply, it inspires others to yawn too. I've wondered if that was a group related kind of thing, subliminal signals sent out and received.
Could just be because everyones tired but I've noticed it at all times of day when one person is tired.

Laughter is another kind of instinctual thing, if one person laughs heartily it instills in others the need to laugh.....even though they don't necessarily know what they're laughing at.

P.S. Kind of reminds me of ape behaviour if I had to be honest.
[img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-24-2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Charlie ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Charlie: Laughter is another kind of instinctual thing, if one person laughs heartily it instills in others the need to laugh.....even though they don't necessarily know what they're laughing at. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Laughing when others laugh supposedly comes from the instinct to show one's teeth when threatened. Laughing is apparently an evolutionary decendant of snarling. Weird, I know.