Opinions on baptisms

[homer]

“Kids are as you know one helluvalot more observant than we think they are (I gotta couple 'o rug rats myself). I relearned this lesson on X-mas eve, when... get this... my 21/2 year old son, WANTED to go to Church!” (ElricMorlockin).

If I am wrong I apologize, I do not mean to sound as if I am putting you or your son down. I have met some very intelligent 2-year-old children, however; I humbly submit that his reasons for going to church did not have a lot to do with the study of scripture or to learn more about God.

“If you don't want to go to church yourself, you might consider letting them go to a Sunday School class with their friends from school. I would bet your 6 yr old is already wondering about why his friends go to church and what it's all about.” (Cerek the Barbaric).

Incidentally my oldest son is only 4; I think I mislead some of you with the earlier post. At this point in his life he is not in a daycare or preschool program. It is most likely that he will start to have questions, about religion and God, very soon.

I cannot, in good conscience, try to explain something or instruct my child in something of which I myself have very little knowledge. I must also take into account the point that some of you have made.

“My parish priest won't baptise a baby unless the parents show up for church and make the promise that they will raise the child as a Christian”. (Cloudbringer) “In infant baptism the parents/sponsors of the infant assume responsibility for instructing/leading the infant in the tenents of the Christian faith.” (antryg).

The church would, most likely, ask me to commit myself to raising my child in the views and practices of the church in which he was baptized. How could I do this if I do not have the same beliefs?

“Still, as Yorick says, it most likely wouldn't hurt them if you do decide to have your children baptised now.” (Cloudbringer). “Either way, baptism doesn't do any harm, no matter what your children may believe in the future.” (Pangur Ban).

As I have said, I am not very knowledgeable in this area. My question about these statements is this: If I baptize my child in a particular church or faith and he decides later in life another faith is more to his liking, will he have to convert?

The debate between my sister and I is ongoing. I do not want to imply that this issue is something that keeps us apart as a family. My sister and I love each other and she would never shun my children for not being baptized.

[ 01-11-2003, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: homer ]

[Earthdog]

IMO baptism should be a conscious decision. Babies cant make that decision and thats always been my one problem with Catholicism.

On the other hand I firmly believe that sending kids to church is beneficial. It helps them learn right from wrong and thats basicly what religion is supposed to be about. At church they will learn some type of values. Kids who are free to rampage the streets dont get that kind of education. Look at the crime rates in south central LA and I would have to think that very few of the gang members in LA went to church at any time in their life. How many gang members do a drive by and then repent? Or go to confession?

IMO it wont hurt the kids to go to church but their baptism should be a decision THEY make, not their parents. I was baptised as a child and I made that decision. I was also baptised as an adult when I knew EXACTLY what it meant. As a child, I knew I wanted to be Baptised, but I didnt have a real grasp of the meaning of it until I was an adult.

[The Hierophant]

While I am not a religious person, was not baptised, and do not attend church I do believe in the basic moral principles of the christian faith. In living by such principles you can do no harm to others. If the God does exist as a conscious entity then surely in all of it's love, benevolence and power it will forgive the unpenentant for not acknowledging it as lord and master, provided they have given their life to good ends.
To the eyes of the uninitiated, alot of the christian rituals such as baptism seem like added gravy to an already adequate meal. It seems more like simply going through the motions of faith than giving any real spiritual power or status to an individual. It would appear that baptism is designed more to alleviate the anxiety of mortal humans in accepting a child as part of the community than to sway the judgment of the creative deity. Once baptised, the child is 'part of the clan', so to speak. If they are not baptised, then they are without an important badge of identity. If you live in a heavily religious community (which I do not, and thus do not feel the pressures of such), then baptism could prove beneficial to your children, family and friends. But ultimately it is of course, up to you.

[homer]

Originally posted by Earthdog: On the other hand I firmly believe that sending kids to church is beneficial. It helps them learn right from wrong and thats basicly what religion is supposed to be about. At church they will learn some type of values. Kids who are free to rampage the streets dont get that kind of education. Look at the crime rates in south central LA and I would have to think that very few of the gang members in LA went to church at any time in their life. How many gang members do a drive by and then repent? Or go to confession?

I do not dispute that these values are something that the church can teach my children. I dare say that my wife and I are good people, without religion. I am capable of teaching my children these values at home. In fact, I believe that the lack of home values has a lot more to do with an increasing crime rate. I do not mean to imply that I do not agree with what you are saying. I know a lot of religious people and I can say that every one, without exception, has decent values.

[ 01-14-2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: homer ]

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: homer - The act of Baptism is primarily a symbolic ritual. It provides a visual representation of the new Christian "dying" to his old, sinful ways (when he goes under the water) and being "born-again" to a new life in which he is guided by the Holy Spirit of God (when he rises out of the water). Because of the symbolic nature, the person being Baptized has to be old enough to comprehend and fully understand what the ritual represents. This is simply too complex for most children until at least age 8-9. Yorick and Larry are correct....God does NOT hold young children "accountable" for thier sins, nor for the sins of others. They are God's precious children and - should they die - they are accepted into Heaven through God's Holy Grace. If you wish to let your children decide about religion for themselves, that is fine...but do not underestimate how much they can understand despite their young ages. If you don't want to go to church yourself, you might consider letting them go to a Sunday School class with their friends from school. I would bet your 6 yr old is already wondering about why his friends go to church and what it's all about.

I find it amazing how people can say what god says or means or wants.
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homer,
I am an athiest married to a mormon (ill wait for the shock to ware off)...They baptise at 8. I dont have a problem with baptism as it means nothing to me, but my wife has a lot of guilt from obligation about her, that she feels was marked to her soul from being baptised at such a young age. She had no oportunity to "find out for herself" ,so to speek, before being branded in this perticuler religion.
My childrens free will to choose there own path is the most important thing I will teach them. As an agnostic, I think you understand this, and know the answer to this dilema.

[ 01-14-2003, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]