morality

[Earthdog]

ok heres my [img]graemlins/2cents.gif[/img]

Suicide by any means is the one unforgivable sin. LETTING someone murder you is suicide. What was it Dr. Kavorkian calling it? Euthenasia? something like that. It doesnt change the fact that a man who was sworn to PROTECT LIFE was willing to END them for PROFIT. Thats Capital Murder.

WAR SUCKS. Plain and simple. No matter who actually starts the fighting BOTH sides always think they are right. Fact of the matter is the jerks who start the wars never FIGHT the wars. They let other people die in their cause. In many cases that millions of people. IF the jerks had to fight the wars and lose their own lives they wouldnt be having a war.

Im not the greatest history buff in the world but I understand why Hitler had to start WW2. All the restrictions placed on Germany after WW1 were starving his people. He had to do something. What he did during that war was HORRIBLE. Killing people simply because they were of a different religious background was disgusting. Like Epona I would have gladly painted a wall in a lovely new shade of gray called Hitlers Brain.

Killing Hitler earlier on would have saved MILLIONS of lives. He was INSANE. Look at the pictures of him. You can clearly see PURE EVIL in his eyes.

I recently saw a report on the news that George W. JR wants to put a hit on Sadam Hussein. Well George if you go that route you are saying its ok to assassinate world leaders. My guess is youll be next. Assassinating ole Sadam goes against everything that America is supposed to stand for. What goes around comes around. When George W. gets what he wants and kills Sadam and is killed in turn are Americans supposed to launch a full scale attack to get revenge?? It would seem to me, in this scenario, that revenge had already been served.

Oops sorry. I kind of got off on a [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[Earthdog]

Originally posted by khazadman:

millions?what alternate universe are you from?the estimated number of deaths range anywhere from 103,000 to 240,000.
source for 103,000
source for 240,000
so it's probably somewhere in between,say 165,000-170,000.[/QUOTE]

And this brought a rapid end to the war. By doing the inconceivable (at the time) the US may have saved MILLIONS of lives. Im not flaming the ANY Japanese people here ok??? But its a fact that they didnt have ANY problems with killing people and the list of names might have grown for YEARS to come. If the Japanese had a moral problem with killing people they sure didnt show it on Sunday December 7 1941.

The bombs were the only way to bring the Japanese to their knees and END the KILLING. Invading Japan would have probably been more suicidal than landing at Normandy. For that matter, if the bombs hadnt been dropped the war could have go on for decades. Can anyone put a price on one life?? NO. Thousands or hundred or thousands of lives?? The mind boggles. Millions???

I think its terrible that the war had to end that way, but better to end it that way than to have the killing go on for decades.

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by Earthdog: Suicide by any means is the one unforgivable sin. LETTING someone murder you is suicide.

hows that? in my own eyes suicide is sometimes preferable to.... certain senarios... for example, if someone (say an army) were to capture you, and you had fore-knowlegde, been warned say, 2 days in advance, and this army planned to toucher(spelt wrong) you; do you think it would be better to take your own life? to die quickly. Another example... if some sicko decided to execute you, by impaling or cruisfixtion* then surely, it would be better to take your own life. I suppose it comes down to 'ones' principles. I suppose there *is* no right or wrong. Do what you must, and pay for it...

*(not very nice things to mention and if I cause any offence, I appologise, let me know and I'll edit this post)

Originally posted by DeSoya: quote: Dulce Et Decorum Est Bent double, like old beggars under sacks Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! --- An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time; But someone still was yelling out and stumbling And floundering like a man in fire or lime --- Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light, As under a green sea, I saw him drowning. In all my dreams, before my helpless sight, He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning. If in some smothering dreams you too could pace Behind the wagon that we flung him in, And watch the white eyes writhing in his face, His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin; If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--- My friend, you would not tell with such high zest To children ardent for some desperate glory, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. Wilfred Owen

Sorry 'bout the lack of formating.

War is wrong.
Killing someone is also wrong and I don't think I would ever classify it as a moral action. If I had the chance to save someone by killing someone else I would do my best to do so. But I would never say that I did something moral.

Not to suggest that those of you who have posted have said that murder is moral. I just want to make the point that we can and should do things that are right and just that may fall outside the bounds of what we define as moral.

DeSoya[/QUOTE]I would beg to differ. You say war is wrong as if that were an absolute truth, which I don't think is the case. There have been wars fought that were just and had noble goals. All of Europe (except Switzerland and Spain) was embroiled in tyrany and oppression, if the UK had not stood firm and the US not fought with the UK then the world would be a very terrible place indeed. There are just causes in the world to fight for, just as there are good reasons for killing.

Originally posted by Earthdog: quote: Originally posted by khazadman:

millions?what alternate universe are you from?the estimated number of deaths range anywhere from 103,000 to 240,000.
source for 103,000
source for 240,000
so it's probably somewhere in between,say 165,000-170,000.[/QUOTE]And this brought a rapid end to the war. By doing the inconceivable (at the time) the US may have saved MILLIONS of lives. Im not flaming the ANY Japanese people here ok??? But its a fact that they didnt have ANY problems with killing people and the list of names might have grown for YEARS to come. If the Japanese had a moral problem with killing people they sure didnt show it on Sunday December 7 1941.

The bombs were the only way to bring the Japanese to their knees and END the KILLING. Invading Japan would have probably been more suicidal than landing at Normandy. For that matter, if the bombs hadnt been dropped the war could have go on for decades. Can anyone put a price on one life?? NO. Thousands or hundred or thousands of lives?? The mind boggles. Millions???

I think its terrible that the war had to end that way, but better to end it that way than to have the killing go on for decades.[/QUOTE]

Ya'll are forgetting a teensey lil fact. There was nothign spectacular about the body counts from the atomic bombs dropped on Japan, the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo were easily responsible for as many deaths as each bomb. The only realy significant issue was that the body count was achieved with one bomb instead of hundreds.