US-Mexico Fence: "Disgraceful"

[Black Baron]

Apart from the immigration problem, USA also has a security one. It is too easy to enter USA via mexico. Terrorists surely find that route helpful. Fence+minefields+razor wire + guards=secure border. More or less.

Immi9grants should be accepted only if they have a certain education level and a speciality. Otherwise you take extra mouthes to feed with no benefit whatsoever. US responsibility is towards its citizens and not towards the citizens of Mexico.

[Azred]

Originally posted by Nightwing: This is true, but the majority of illegals are productive members of their community paying taxes and volunteering and contributing to society.

[img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] What a strange dream world you inhabit! [img]graemlins/laugh3.gif[/img] Most illegal immigrants have jobs that pay cash, therefore they don't have to pay taxes on that income. Anyway...you may continue to believe whatever you wish. That blue pill must be really tasty. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Lanesra: The rest of the world really are just an inconvenience to the US aren't we?

Yes, be thankful we don't kill you all, and STFU.

[Timber Loftis]

Regarding the topic of illegal immigrants learning English, the presumption that they will learn it over time ignores certain things. Like... Southern Florida, where you can go to a school that's taught in Spanish and live your whole life without ever *having* to speak English. Sure, you'll always have a second-rate job, but if it's all you want....

Look to S. Florida to see the horrors of rampant immigration. All the good businesses and money classes are moving north to Ft. Lauderdale. Miami is becoming a hellhole, whose population is becoming one that solely consists of two components: poor blacks and non-English speaking immigrants. The money and businesses are quickly fleeing. Those of you who haven't visited the area regularly for the past 10 years may still think of Miami as the hottest up-and-coming trendy spot, but it's not. It pissed away all that opportunity it had.

[Melcheor]

What seems to come across is that there are two extreme types of immigrant. There are the leeches, and there are the ones who bring needed skills to the country. The British NHS would be one hell of a lot better off without he former, but would collapse without the latter. Both types come for selfish reasons, however. They all want to make more money and have better quality of life.

I, personally don't think there is much justification for either type to be allowed into developed countries like ours. We obviously don't want the leeches, but removing the skilled workers from developed countries* is hardly going to help. If anything it will bring us more illegals, by exacerbating the problems in their countries.

No a wall that long will never work. If people are desperate, not even a wall with gun emplacements and the threat of being shot will deter them - Berlin.

[Szass-Tam]

Originally posted by Melcheor: Both types come for selfish reasons, however. They all want to make more money and have better quality of life.

Are you sure that's entirely selfish?

[LennonCook]

Originally posted by Szass-Tam: quote: Originally posted by Melcheor: Both types come for selfish reasons, however. They all want to make more money and have better quality of life.

Are you sure that's entirely selfish? [/QUOTE]It is the same type of selfishness that capitalism works on.

[Timber Loftis]

It's absolutely selfish.

Do not confuse selfishness and the justifications for selfishness.

Scenario 1: You're 18, you face the threat of you or your coworker losing your job due to lack of available hours. You know your coworker is guilty of a few minor infractions at work, just like you are, but you turn him in and he gets fired. You were selfish, and dishonest too (via omission regarding your own wrongs).

Scenario 2: You are 35, w/ wife and 2.3 kids. Same scenario. You were "Protecting Your Family." The whole trick that family pulls on society is it has a nefarious way of allowing us to extend the definition of "love" such that it inevitably justifies "selfishness."

Now, I say all this because one way I believe Szass-Tam would try to argue the immigrant's "selfishness" is not selfish, is by relying on the fact that many do it to make a better life for their families, including future generations, and to send money back home. All of that, laudible as it may be, is just the loving extension of selfishness.

[Szass-Tam]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: It's absolutely selfish. Now, I say all this because one way I believe Szass-Tam would try to argue the immigrant's "selfishness" is not selfish, is by relying on the fact that many do it to make a better life for their families, including future generations, and to send money back home. All of that, laudible as it may be, is just the loving extension of selfishness.

You're ruling out the possibility that the immigrant could be a positive impact on the given country's society, rather than a drain on it. They may have skills to offer that would benefit our economy as well as being able to support their families overseas - an economic immigrant.

[sageridder]

An issue I belive has not been addressed (many good ones have) is that the influx of illegals has efectivly outsourced many american jobs that could not be without them,in that the jobs actually have to be proformed here.Industries like the service industry (custodians and such),construction of buildings here, and farming, now have a work force willing to accept wages that are so low that if it were not for the illegals that these industries would be forced to cut thier profit margins or executive salaries to levels that would allow them to offer a realistic living wage to employees.Thier acceptance of these wages (often under the table)only makes companies richer while pushing the poorest here to accept diminshing returns for thier work efforts.This could even promote the the idea that "why should i go work for McDonalds money when i can make 10x that stealing or selling dope?" I actually do like most of the people I've personally meet that have immergrated here, but the sheer volume of illegals only helps to water down the economic progress we have made.(Well at least for the little man big buisness loves a new group to exploit)