Secret US Jails

[Sir Degrader]

Yes, but the socio-economic conditions that let him be elected (hyper inflation, loss of empire, etc) simply aren't present on this side of the iron curtain.

[Stratos]

We are not in any way immune to these kind of things. Early 20th century Russia or Germany are not some kind of parallel universes that operates on completely different conditions than the modern Western world.

These events happened less than a 100 years ago, and in the case of Germany, in a leading industrial Western country. "It can't happen here"-type of arguments are not very comforting.

[Sir Degrader]

Originally posted by Stratos: We are not in any way immune to these kind of things. Early 20th century Russia or Germany are not some kind of parallel universes that operates on completely different conditions than the modern Western world. These events happened less than a 100 years ago, and in the case of Germany, in a leading industrial Western country. "It can't happen here"-type of arguments are not very comforting.

In all these situations, there were exacerbating circumstances. Germany had recently lost a MAJOR war, gone through incredible inflation, and had been cheated by the Treaty of Versailles. Name one major nation today that is the equivalent to the Weimar Republic.

[Sir Degrader]

Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: logically we're saying it's okay to torture US troops that are captured. /QB]

Do you really think they give a damn anyways?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: quote: Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar: logically we're saying it's okay to torture US troops that are captured. /QB]

Do you really think they give a damn anyways? [/QUOTE]I certainly think the world gives a damn. Good luck saying "Ooh, look, they're torturing our troops and violating the Geneva Convention" if we're doing the same thing.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: quote: Originally posted by Stratos: We are not in any way immune to these kind of things. Early 20th century Russia or Germany are not some kind of parallel universes that operates on completely different conditions than the modern Western world. These events happened less than a 100 years ago, and in the case of Germany, in a leading industrial Western country. "It can't happen here"-type of arguments are not very comforting.

In all these situations, there were exacerbating circumstances. Germany had recently lost a MAJOR war, gone through incredible inflation, and had been cheated by the Treaty of Versailles. [/QUOTE]You're right. We're not losing a war or anything, and our economy is doing just fine. Oh, wait, that's right.

Just two out of three doesn't mean we're safe. Imagine! Imagine someone running for office, with the promise of getting us out of an unwinnable war, restoring pride to our one-respected nation... Don't tell me that can't happen.

[Sir Degrader]

AFAIK, these aren't soldiers that are being tortured, simply terrorists.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

What if they aren't? What if the government made a mistake? You think the government never makes mistakes? And what about things like basic human dignity? What about things like hypocrisy? I don't know what kind of world you want to live in, but I don't want a government that tortures. If not for the egregious breach of human rights here, why don't you stop and think for a moment about a government that goes unchecked? If we let them torture people, they'll get too big for themselves. They'll spread it out. Since we're torturing terrorists, why can't we torture this here serial killer and make him tell us where he hid the body? Use your brain!

[shamrock_uk]

I highlighted the case of one Iraqi general in a post in CE many months ago. He fought in uniform, didn't desert his unit and tried to repel the invasion when it took place. For some reason he was being held as an enemy combatant by the US rather than as a prisoner of war.

Illumina is absolutely right - this is a slippery slope - if you violate the geneva convention once it becomes more and more acceptable to do it for other cases which you would never have considered initially.

This was one of the key factors behind the Abu Ghraib scandal according to the US report - previous breaches of the geneva convention and speeches by political leaders about how it shouldn't always apply made the soldiers think that what they were doing was acceptable.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Sir Degrader: quote: Originally posted by Stratos: We are not in any way immune to these kind of things. Early 20th century Russia or Germany are not some kind of parallel universes that operates on completely different conditions than the modern Western world. These events happened less than a 100 years ago, and in the case of Germany, in a leading industrial Western country. "It can't happen here"-type of arguments are not very comforting.

In all these situations, there were exacerbating circumstances. Germany had recently lost a MAJOR war, gone through incredible inflation, and had been cheated by the Treaty of Versailles. Name one major nation today that is the equivalent to the Weimar Republic. [/QUOTE]You missed my point, Sir Degrader. The scenario doesn't have to be indentical to the Weimar Republic for something like this to happen. The West today is facing troubles of our own.